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In this episode, you will learn about the health implications of EMF exposure and solutions for mitigating them.

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About My Guest

My guest for this episode is Nick Pineault.  Nick “The EMF Guy” Pineault is an Investigative Health Journalist and #1 bestselling author of The Non-Tinfoil Guide to EMFs.  He is a down-to-earth and passionate health journalist who has published more than 1,500 online articles through a daily newsletter called Nick & Gen’s Healthy Life.  Through his unconventional approach blending humor and common sense, he’s becoming a leading voice on the topic of electromagnetic pollution and a personal advisor to the top functional medicine doctors in the world.  His work is based on more than 500 scientific references, and the latest work of dozens of PhDs, MDs and EMF experts including Dr. Martin Pall, Dr. Martin Blank, Dr. Magda Havas, Dr. Olle Johansson, Dr. Devra Davis, and many, many more.  He’s also launched the Electrosmog Rx online course in collaboration with Dr. Dietrich Klinghardt, with the goal of educating 100,000 health professionals worldwide on how to help patients address EMF-related symptoms and minimize their EMF exposure.  His mission is to sift through the research to help find legitimate health solutions and teach us something new every day.

Key Takeaways

  • What are EMFs and the different types that need consideration?
  • What are the symptoms of EMF hypersensitivity?
  • How common is sensitivity to EMFs?
  • Do EMFs impact children and animals?
  • Why are smart meters not the number one concern?
  • How do EMFs impact our mitochondria and our microbiome?
  • What is the connection between EMFs and heavy metals? Mold illness?
  • How does one convince non-believers that EMFs are a health threat?
  • How are EMFs best measured?
  • What are some solutions for reducing EMF exposure?
  • How can the negative health impact of cell phones, computers, and other technologies be mitigated?

Connect With My Guest


Related Resources

Non-Tinfoil Guide to EMFs
Electrosmog RX Course

Interview Date

June 20, 2019


Transcript Disclaimer: Transcripts are intended to provide optimized access to information contained in the podcast.  They are not a full replacement for the discussion.  Timestamps are provided to facilitate finding portions of the conversation.  Errors and omissions may be present as the transcript is not created by someone familiar with the topics being discussed.  Please Contact Me with any corrections.

[00:00:01] Welcome to Better Health Guy Blogcasts, empowering your better health. And now, here's Scott, your Better Health Guy.

[00:00:14] The content of this show is for informational purposes only and is not intended to diagnose, treat or cure any illness or medical condition. Nothing in today's discussion is meant to serve as medical advice or as information to facilitate self-treatment. As always, please discuss any potential health related decisions with your own personal medical authority.

[00:00:35] Scott: Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode number 100 of the Better Health Guy Blogcast series. Today's guest is Nick Pineault and the topic of the show is “The EMF Guy”. Nick “The EMF Guy” Pineault is an investigative journalist and number one bestselling author of ‘The Non-Tinfoil Guide to EMFs’. He is a down to earth and passionate health journalist who has published more than 15 hundred online articles through a daily newsletter called ‘Nick and Gen’s Healthy Life’. Through his unconventional approach, blending humor and common sense, he's becoming a leading voice on the topic of electromagnetic pollution, and a personal advisor to the top functional medicine doctors in the world. His work is based on more than 500 scientific references and the latest work of dozens of PhDs, MDs and EMF experts, including Dr. Martin Paul, Dr. Martin Blank, Magda Havas, Dr. Olle Johansson, Dr. Devra Davis, and many, many more. He’s also launched the Electrosmog Rx online course in collaboration with Dr. Dietrich Klinghardt, with the goal of educating 100,000 health professionals worldwide on how to help their patients address EMF-related symptoms and minimize their EMF exposure. His mission is to sift through the research to help find legitimate health solutions and teach us something new every day. And now my interview with Nick Pineault.

[00:02:09] Scott: Today's show is a discussion between two guys; the Better Health Guy and “The EMF Guy”. So, let's see what these two guys can do to shed some light on this very important topic and how it impacts our health. Thanks for being here today, Nick.

[00:02:22] Nick: Sure. Thanks for having me.

[00:02:24] Scott: How did your own personal journey lead you to becoming the EMF Guy and to having a passion, the passion that you have today for really helping others?

[00:02:34] Nick: It comes from really, my early days as someone out of UNI being extremely interested in my personal health. And I started learning a lot of things about food and being very surprised that for example, I shouldn't drink as much milk, pasteurize the non-organic milk as I was doing, that gluten maybe wasn't for everyone. And a lot of things started make sense when I actually discovered that the way most people are eating these days, and they're telling you to eat margarine on the TV ads is actually not true. It was a shock for me because I have a communications background and I was very shocked at the information that we're fed by -- Well, in my case, Health Canada and Canada wasn't actually very accurate. And it wasn't necessarily scientifically accurate when you look at the recommendations of other governments. So, I was also very curious about why is it that we're telling our citizens eat one way and in other countries another way.

So, the discrepancy between countries is really something that fascinated me and I started writing about health in French, that's my primary language. I'm from Montreal in Canada, the French Canadian part of Canada. And I just became known a little bit in my circles as a health geek, and after that, I started publishing ebooks about it. I was working as a copywriter for TV so strong interest in writing, but it wasn't really my life direction. I knew that I wanted to be of help. So, I started talking about nutrition online, gathered a small audience. And over the years, we've created a company around publishing health information that is, based on my findings, basically being known as, at the time it's actually something most people forgot, or people have been following me for 10 years, maybe. But I was called a nutrition nerd actually because of my nerdy glasses. It was very funny. I looked way younger at the time, you can find some of this online. That's pretty embarrassing for me. But yeah, it's still, it's part of who that person is that I became.

When it comes to EMFs, you know, I never expected really to dive into the topic. I just came across, I think the most foundational book that I read was Disconnect by Dr. Devra Davis, a scientist who has been working on many environmental issues. And when she dove in EMFs, she felt so comfortable about the topic because of how urgent it was to warn the public about the dangers and how credible the sheer amount of volume of scientific studies that were published. She came across that and she was shocked. So, she published Disconnect in 2010. I came across it probably 2014, didn't think really anything major of it except that I always looked at my phone a little bit in a prudent way. But I didn't know much more about it. What happened is that I read this book, and then another book, and another book and another book. Another one was the book Overpowered by Dr. Martin Blank. And he's also a PhD level scientist, he's a physicist and unfortunately, he passed away last year. But he left this book with so many references to scientific studies. And, you know, I always like finding a story that's a little bit controversial, of course, it's I think it's human nature.

And I found that this topic was not only very credible and supported by science, and all these authors that were extremely credible, more credible than I'll ever be on an academic standpoint. Why are they saying that EMFs are not safe? It didn't make sense to me, why they would put their career on the line for a topic, that's nonsense, they would not do that. So, it just didn't make sense for me. And I had to, eventually, I read every book that I could. And what I found, though, is that when I explained a topic to my wife, Gen, who is also the co-CEO of our publishing company, she's really accustomed to kind of doing her best to listen to me, although I go on rants for an hour about the fish industry, I don't know something obscure, right. But she was listening to me about EMFs but feeling very confused. And I realized that even I had a hard time grasping the topic because it is very, very complicated. Magnetic fields, electric field, dirty electricity, RF, the health effects, even the politics are so so dry around it that even reading multiple books, I figured that maybe I need to write a simple guide about it. And this is really what spun the idea of the Non-Tinfoil Guide to EMFs that was in at the end of 2016.

And in the end, I wrote it in about six weeks. And it pretty much wrote itself because it was really the amalgam of everything that was published. For me, it was nothing could I didn't invent anything, I tried to make everything simpler and simpler and simpler. And also, I added my personal touch, which is using humor and everyday language that people understand in order to conveyed that this topic is basically nonsense. and not in the sense that it's not critical, but in the sense that why are we allowed to have cell phones in our pocket, if it clearly impacts fertility? For example, these kind of things that I was just shocked and since then that the rest is history.

And you know, the EMF Guy some people now see where I'm at and they say, Nick, you're -- I mean, I have to mention it. Some people are saying, Nick, come on the EMF Guy, you're kind of -- you have the big head now. Well, I call myself that because people started calling me the EMF Guy in all honesty. I went to several medical conferences, and I was the only one there to talk about EMFs, even in medical conferences. All these doctors wear their cell phones on, the industrial strength routers, the levels that I could detect with a very simple EMF meters were off the charts. And it was like, okay, this EMF guy, he's kind of the funny guy here with a fringe topic, right? So, it kind of stuck. But again, it's a direction that I never thought I would go into it, and then the rest is history. There's so much work that needs to be done in order to bring this information to the public. And I'm grateful that you're having me today to talk about it.

[00:09:01] Scott: It's kind of funny when I first started considering EMF that was 2006, and it was from Dietrich Klinghardt who I know you know his work well also. And back then everyone was laughing at him. And now 13 years later, people aren't laughing anymore. I think now there is more recognition that the things he was talking about in 2006 are actually significant concerns. So, let's go back a little bit. Tell us a little bit for the listeners, what do we mean by EMFs? What are the different types of EMFs that we need to really think about and some examples of each of those different types?

[00:09:30] Nick: Sure. Well, EMF stands for electromagnetic fields or even electromagnetic frequencies. And the EMF spectrum is really widening encompasses a lot of things. So, an EMF is not necessarily a bad thing. There are EMF in nature and for example, the sun emits a wide variety of different frequencies that we know can be beneficial in certain amounts, certain amounts of UV will make your skin produce vitamin D. This is amazing for your immune system. If you stay in the sun too much you can get DNA damage you get, you can increase your risk of cancer of all sorts and just get skin damage overall. We also have different frequencies that are emitted by the sun that are invisible UV, certain types of UV is one of them, and certain wavelengths of infrared as well. So, invisible EMF so to speak. And there's also earth has a natural magnetic field and there are various other types of fields. The difference between these fields and the new fields, the new frequencies that we've created, that man has created in the last 100 years or so is really how the signal is architectured. So, the different signals that we've created includes just household electricity, but more recently, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, cell phone, cell phone towers, and then of course, we're going in the digital age of 5G and the Internet of Things. I mean, sensors and everything is getting connected, but these things are not connected by magic. They're connected by really the magic of engineering, which is emitting, in fact, a lot of radiation, especially in the microwave range radiation frequency or also called microwave radiation.

So, what happens is that quite, there's two things that happen. First, our capacity to study the topic and the funding to produce great and dependent science is slower than how fast we're integrating this technology in society, and how fast it's evolving. For example, where people are finding that 5G is just around the corner is being installed in 30 plus US cities right now. And in Finland or maybe it's Sweden, don't quote me on this one, there's a 6G summit that just happened between people from the industry. Why? Well, they want to be ahead of what's next. It's really an exciting age of new discoveries, and more and more and more connectivity, we need more data, we need more speed. So, this is really what's happening. You know, the NTP study was almost $30 million invested by the US government with taxpayers money just came out in 2018. And what they studied is the effects of 2G and 3G technology in rats. The findings were more cancer risks for certain types of tumors, clear evidence that they said. So, it was very concerning. And this study has been barely talked about. But there's a point here, and the point really, is that we're studying 2G and 3G technology with this cutting-edge study, but by the time it comes out, now, we're a 5G, and people are taking about six. So, of course, we're in a very bizarre spot where technology is evolving too fast. So, that's EMFs for you.

And then there are such things as EMF guidelines that are set by certain organizations and that governments follow. The problem is that they've been set, the last time for example, the EMF guidelines have been revised by the Federal Communications Commission, FCC in the US is more than 30 years ago. So, that's a problem right there, because our exposure now has nothing to -- It's not 30 years ago, sorry, it was 1996. But it's based on science from the 80s. So, it is very old, outdated understanding of how these fields might affect us or not. And at the moment, what we're stuck with is these technologies that are emitting signals that in one hand, the government and while most of the government says there's no effect, the industry says, of course, there's no effect of business as usual, we're within the guidelines. But that independent scientists, including Dr. Martin Blank, the late Dr. Martin Blank, Dr. Devra Davis, and hundreds of independent scientists that have no ties attached to cell phone technology say, we've got a huge problem, because at the levels that you claim are safe, we are seeing various effects including DNA damage, oxidative stress, loss of fertility, and neuro psychological effects, among other things. So, this is really the situation we've got on our hands right now.

[00:14:29] Scott: So, you've said that EMFs make us a little less happy every day, a little more anxious, a little more inflamed. What are some of the symptoms that you see and some of the conditions that are commonly associated to EMF exposure?

[00:14:41] Nick: Right. So, I don't see any symptoms. I'm not an MD, of course. But what is reported by doctors in especially in Environmental Medicine is a variety of symptoms that sometimes is called a condition when let's say cases are more extreme is called electro hypersensitivity, EHS. And one of the most important researchers in the world that is looking at the very physical effects of or let's say, diagnosis of EHS is Dr. Dominique Balcombe from France. He has identified reliable biomarkers, especially since his 2015 papers, but he has been working on it for decades, if my understanding is right. And he really publishes this information in the face of medical science that mainly claims that these effects, EHS is all in the head and is a psychological issues. In other words, the nocebo effect, people fear the cell phone towers, and then they get sick. What is seen in medical literature that's independent and people in Environmental Medicine who actually treat these people is that oftentimes they first feel the symptoms, and then they discovered that there's a source of EMF that was causing the symptoms or aggravating certain symptoms. They remove the source, and they get better. So, there's really a causal effect here.

So, for example, people who sleep with a cell phone under the pillow right next to their head, the latest survey I came across a few weeks back, that has been shared around in my circles is 33% of teenagers in the US sleep with their cell phone. Most of them are probably emitting radiation because most people don't think about these things. You can hit airplane mode, you can turn it off, but likely they just look at Instagram, and then they fall asleep with the phone right next to their head all night. One of the main symptoms that is associated with EMF exposure is loss of good sleep, especially deep sleep. The second one is fatigue, which is in itself very logical. You wake up in the morning and you feel like well, I'm fatigued because I haven't slept well. And after that you have anxiety, depression, and you have skin issues, gut issues, and it becomes more and more extreme as these people have, let's say quote-unquote, real cases of electro hypersensitivity, in which case, these people can display a symptomatology that could look like multiple sclerosis, like fibromyalgia, some people, it really seems to be affecting their brain's ability, their nervous system or even heart palpitations. And we can get into the mechanisms that have been elucidated. But it's really where the body parts that are most likely to get effects would be the head, the heart, the nervous system overall, and the various organs, including reproductive organs, and this is really where the effects are seen and the symptoms are felt by these people.

[00:17:52] Scott: What percentage of the population would you say are potentially electromagnetically hypersensitive, and then maybe compare mild, moderate, and  significantly hypersensitive?

[00:18:02] Nick: It’s very hard to tell. The data that has been seen in multiple studies, some cite the number 3%, 3 to 5% might be hypersensitive. If it's true, we're talking about millions of individuals that literally need to go to extreme measures to live in a city right now or go in a crowd right because of all the cell phones. And depending on the person, it could be a very high sensitivity to cell phones, but not to a Wi-Fi router. And this is what also makes it very complicated to study, and to prove for medical science purposes. They want proof that there's such thing as electro hypersensitivity. But if you just do a provocation study with a cell phone, and the person is especially sensitive to a five gigahertz Wi-Fi signal, and this has been seen over and over. Dr. Magda Havas, for example, who is a teacher and who's a researcher at the Trent University in Ontario, Canada, clearly says that some people are more affected by specific sources. So, it's just another rabbit hole, it makes it very, very complicated to study. What was the question again? I got sidetracked.

[00:19:19] Scott: Yeah, just comparing those that are maybe mildly versus moderately.

[00:19:21] Nick: Yeah. Well, Magda Havas, there's a good reason I quoted her because she has been talking in the paper, it was a 2014 paper about what the occurrence of EHS. And she mentions, 3 to 5%, but she mentioned that in the case of mild to moderate symptoms, it's up to 33%, in her analysis of the science at the moment that we have available. And the truth is, it's not like this topic is recognized in mainstream medical science so we don't have a good registry. For example, people that come into the doctor with complaints of headaches, and then we discover it's a cell phone, and then we enter it in the system. For certain diseases, you have such systems that make it easier to study in the future, we have data basis. At the moment, it's still unrecognized and even pushed aside and even people who are talking about it are pushed aside by mainstream science because there's a lot of skepticism, and a lot of people are, I think, afraid of the ridicule and there's still a huge stigma around the topic, unfortunately. And when it comes to the rest of us, if it's, let's say two thirds have people who are not feeling it. Well, I'd be surprised if these are truly people that are not feeling it. For example, most people and that's very anecdotal, most people that tell me well, I don't feel my cell phone, I have no effects. I never heard about your researchers that came across your book, I tell them well turn off your cell phone, turn off the Wi-Fi router even though they live in an apartment with 50, neighbor Wi-Fi and cell towers. So, they don't shield themselves. So, they just reduce a little bit of EMFs.

And most of them come back to me and say oh, well, I seem to sleep better. And then I have some people who actually track it through the use of different devices this is Oura ring a very accurate way to cheaply look at the depth of your sleep and the sleep cycles. And clearly, I can see a difference. If I slept right next to for a Wi-Fi router, I should do the experiment, but I'll have a horrible night of sleep. I know that I wake up with adrenaline rushes and this is something I experienced in a past apartment two summers ago while writing my book, go figure. And I actually never realized that it was a Wi-Fi router until I started turning it off. And when my wife forgot to turn off the Wi-Fi router and I wasn't aware of it. So, there's no nocebo effect at play. I just woke up in the middle of the night at 3:45 or something like that every night that she forgot to turn it off, every single night. So, my body and I just felt this adrenaline rush, and I'm like, okay, this is ridiculous. I'm probably paranoid and I go see the Wi-Fi router, it's on. And at this point, I knew what was true for me, you know, it's also a matter of testing it out. But when you are open to it, then you preventively do a couple of steps that I talked about in the book. And so many people talk about online, creating distance, reducing your use, reducing your EMF load overall, most people feel different. So, in that case, I would say that, to some extent, all of us are slightly sensitive to these signals.

[00:22:46] Scott: Talk to us a little bit about why children are potentially more at risk from EMF exposure than adults?

[00:22:52] Nick: Well, they there's a lot of reasons. They have smaller brains. So, when you talk about the use of a device right next to the head, the penetration of these EMFs would be greater on a smaller head than a bigger head. The cell phone is a device that has been tested on a mannequin head, that's the equivalent of a six foot two man 220 pounds. So, right there, it's a bigger head than Nick Pineault. And it's a bigger head, then actually, it's more than 90% of cell phone users have a smaller head than that. So, right there, there's a little bit of nonsense and how they got started with the testing. And then it became the standard and then they didn't look again at the standard, even though -- So, again, it's just business as usual. These tests are just very, very dedicated. And, you know, certain scientists have been saying, for more than 20 years, 30 years. Dr.  Om P. Gandhi -, for example has been saying that, well, it doesn't make sense to test on a mannequin head that so big, considering that the specific absorption rate, which is let's say, the unit of measurement we use right now for cell phone radiation, that's probably not an accurate measurement. But it's the one we use right now. Well, of course, it's higher and children. So, how can we sell devices that clearly now children use? I mean, the survey I found and that I've been passing around, and people have been accusing me like you're making this up Nick there's no way this is accurate.

There's a 2014 survey by the American Academy for pediatrics, in a poor Philadelphia neighborhood, it was 75% of surveyed kids among hundreds that owned a cell phone. So, probably an old cell phone, the parents, obviously are poor, but it was probably for security reasons, for peace of mind. So, it just makes you aware that in today's society, even four year olds are talking on cell phones. And if they are not taught to only use it for 911 or certain situations, they might be using it right next to the head. So, their brain are still developing and we don't know what's going to happen. There are some studies in rats and humans alike, good quality studies that have been published about exposure before birth, and what happens to children. And there's a higher risk of developing asthma and also ADHD, behavioral problems, ADHD like behavioral problems in children. So, the indications are really not good. You know, there's Hugh Taylor, he’s one of the top doctors there and he's really saying, well, based on the rat studies that they've performed with his research team, we should probably not expose children, and especially in the womb. And this is not an information that people are aware of, you now. So, this is multiple-- there's so many other reasons, but mainly because they're developing and they're smaller, the effects are simply unknown, but what we do know is extremely concerning.

[00:26:08] Scott: Yeah, and that correlation has been made in Dr. Klinghardt's work as well, in terms of children, patients of his or children that are on the autism spectrum, and the sleeping location of the mother during the pregnancy, the level of EMF exposure that they had while they were pregnant, and thus, the resulting severity of the child's condition. It's really concerning. If we think about many of the different chronic health challenges and neurological diseases that people are facing today. And we think of that as a bucket that's kind of overflowing, how much of that bucket or the contribution to that bucket do you think is from electromagnetic fields versus all types of other potential issues in the environment, chronic infections and so on?

[00:26:48] Nick: It’s very difficult. That depends on who you ask. If you ask an EMF activist, they would say, 100% EMF, 0% all the rest, or some of them are really extreme in that sense. The truth is we don't know. I think it's really a mix of everything that puts people over the edge. If you look at them, the biological explanation behind EMF damage and how it causes oxidative stress, that's most of let's say that one of the best researchers to follow is Dr. Martin Pall, P-A-L-L. And he has shown that there's a real synergistic effect when it comes to exposure to EMF and exposure to various chemicals, including pesticides, including even mold. And these really operate in the same manner increasing intracellular calcium, and leading down the road to a kind of domino effect and treating peroxynitrite damage. And that's a reactive nitrogen species that is the only and that's something I learned from, I got to give him full credit, Dr. Mercola, who's working on an EMF book and has really elucidated why peroxynitrite is so dangerous and that's the only reactive species that can cross and get into the mitochondria. It can cross from one cell to another, get into the nucleus, get into mitochondria, because it's so small, whereas, all the other ones cannot technically do it. And this really changes everything because if we can learn how to stop peroxynitrite, we might even find new cures for a lot of conditions that are also follow the same kind of same mechanisms.

So, we don't know what the percentages, it's really hard. And you know, what is hard is for example, there's a Dr. Ronald Kostoff who's an amazing researchers looking at EMF synergies, and I read a couple of his papers working on the EMF course we've created that's our professional level offering, if you will, he basically says that it's nearly impossible to look at. Imagine the synergies between cell phone and then pesticide number one, pesticide number two, but right, it becomes exponential maybe with machine learning and kind of supercomputers will be about able to model these better. But for the moment is just a headache, knowing which one is the most dangerous. Even glyphosate. There's just one ingredient in Monsanto Roundup, and some people claim that other ingredients are even worse. So, we don't know exactly. Anyone that tells you they know for sure is it's more on the opinion, in my view, than a fact. What we know is that I mean, my conclusion, you know, in my book and my entire work I tried -- sometimes I get carried away and lose sight. But in the end my message is really what we don't know is the most concerning thing. The fact that for example, there's not a single study backing up the safety of 5Gis extremely concerning because we're putting technology first and then studying or counting, even some, some would say that's pretty strong, but some say counting the body bags, which is epidemiology, right, studying the past. Why not take a precautionary measure approach that has been proven to work and instead kind of slow down this role of technology that, of course, leads to a lot of jobs and money and economics, but to protect the population. And in the end, we're seeing a chronic disease epitome in the population and in adults and children alike. And these two things are correlated there.

There's really no arguing that it's not something we're doing. It's not genes, we're doing something with our modern society that is wrong and leading to disease. So, is it that we don't have enough nutrients? We have too much stress, we have too much EMF, too many toxins; it is probably all of them. But pinpointing exactly what is the problem is very, very hard. And I think that a few studies in functional medicine, like Dr. Dale Bredesen, for example, who's studying, let's say, for the first time, holistic approach to the treatment or even cure of Alzheimer like symptoms, or straight up Alzheimer cases, is promising because he does show that in order to achieve healing, and that's something I mean, people who are following you know that already. I’m sure an old broken record, but you need to do everything right. So, the problem with EMFs, I think, is that even in functional medicine, a lot of practitioners still -- few of them, I think, these days, I hope, but some of them are still skeptical that it's a factor to strongly consider. But Dr. Klinghardt and other ones that are seeing the most chronically ill patients are each telling me and telling the public that it's a huge factor, and that if you don't get it right, sometimes it makes or break the healing, and if only because it makes her break the sleep quality, which is just essential for recovery.

[00:32:21] Scott: And I think fortunately, more and more doctors are catching on. I just did a podcast a week or so ago with Dr. Raj Patel, talking about mast cell activation syndrome. And EMF was one of the key issues that he looks at as well. You mentioned Joe Mercola. I know he's been working on a book on this topic as well. And just the title alone, I remember he mentioned it in a previous podcast on another person’s show. I think at the time his working title was The EMF Extinction.

[00:32:47] Nick: Yeah, I'm not sure. I'm not sure if the publisher actually agreed.

[00:32:50] Scott: I think it's fantastic, actually.

[00:32:53] Nick: I think it's going to ring a bell, if it passes, and if it becomes a huge thing, wow, I can wait to see how it unfolds. I'm always excited about these. I don't know like that will be a huge moment because some people will freak out that it will be almost funny to see. But that's a huge statement, I love it. I love the fact that he's taking a stand, you know, I'm more prudent. The Non-Tinfoil Guy to EMFs is like humor, even some people hate it. To be quite honest, some people think making fun of that doesn't make sense. For me, it's a tool to get people on board and so far it's been working.

[00:33:29] Scott: I actually thought it was fantastic. I read the entire book in preparation for this conversation, and so I highly recommend it for other people as well. I think it really distills things down to a language that people can understand and then take action from there. So, one of the things that you bring up in the book is that smart meters are probably not the number one source of EMF. So, over the past few years, so many people concerned about smart meters being installed, and so on. So, how much of an issue are smart meters based on your research and tell us about some of the bigger concerns that you have in terms of exposure?

[00:33:58] Nick: Sure. Well, meters, for some odd reason, it looks like it's I don't know, if it's the pulsation, sometimes it is the shear strength of it. Sometimes it might be because an entire array of smart meters might be installed close to your sleeping location. In some people, it seems to trigger their sensitivity to all sorts of EMFs including smart meters, but including then people start becoming sensitive to other sources as well like smartphones and Wi-Fi. And then eventually, becomes people in the street that are doing something on Facebook, and you feel ill. So, it becomes a real issue for them. So, there's a really weird link in, especially in survey studies that have been done between smart meters and the development of electro sensitivity. It might be because the smart meters are emitting again, certain frequencies that are just more bioactive, we don't exactly know. But it's one source to look at, if you're taking a history of your health. And you're like, well, since that day, that I can be pinpointed, I've been feeling sick. Sometimes it's just that the smart meter was installed and people are not aware, it's not they don't initially knock at your door. Sometimes it's just a thing that happens, depending on your city, state or country. But the thing about smart meters, it depends. If it's very close to your bedroom, it’s definitely a factor to look at because it's not like you can turn it off easily just like a cell phone. You would have to shield from it, but preferably opt out the smart meter program if it's allowed in your state or country. And it really varies from state to state.

Unfortunately, there's no good website to get a clear answer. But if you look around, you're going to find an answer. It's worth it, in my opinion to pay, let's say the penalty fee that sometimes they will put on you for opting out the program, which again, some people say is downright unreasonable or downright criminal. But again, I'm not into politics that much I would pay it and just move on to other things. But you know, smart meters, depending, some of them are emitting extremely high levels, some of them are emitting lower levels. For example, the one I had in an apartment two summers ago in 2017 in Montreal, it was every 30 seconds. So, that's bad, but that's not as bad as the one I've heard that was installed in some cities in California, which was multiple times per second. So, it really varies, what kind of software they’re using, what kind of model you got on your home. So, it's very hard to give a cookie cutter answer here. But generally, speaking, the worst sources of EMFs sort of ones that are touching your body. There's a, there's the really, a drop off, that is exponential, if you distance yourself from devices.

Therefore, I think the cell phone might be the number one source to start reducing your exposure from especially near to head or when you carry it on your person. It is when you're let's say more at risk of acute effects to the brain or to your other sensitive organ's I mean, you choose which organ you want affected, or likely you want no organ to be affected. And then the second -- Well, of course, and I say cell phone, it might be a tablet, that might be anything that you would put right next to your body, your laptop on the lap. All these sources can be equivalent, especially if you have a high data usage on them, your Wi-Fi, they can all emit tremendous amounts that have been shown in multiple studies to cause biological effects. But when it comes to the home, it would be really that darn Wi-Fi router that people install inside their home. So, a lot of people again, they see the cell phone towers outside and they say I'm very concerned, there's 5G, there's again, the smart meters, even my neighbor’s smart meters, I'm very concerned, what's happening with all these Wi-Fi networks.

Well, again, the distance rule states that you're probably more exposed by your own router. If you're in an apartment building that might change but still, you're greatly affected especially if you are spending all day everyday near your Wi-Fi router. Some people could install it right next to their computer. My dad had had it right next to his hard drive, computer hard drive, Wi-Fi router, it was right in his face. So, he was feeling very fatigued. He read my book and he's an extreme man. So, he took the machine and he threw it in the trash. And I said “Dad, no, you can actually go with Ethernet cables.” And I don't even know he probably still has internet. I don't know what he did with it, but he was very angry at the machine because he felt it. Even though he doesn't consider himself very sensitive, he felt it. He felt less fatigue at the end of the day and he was just getting very anxious near this machine. So, placement for Wi-Fi router is key. And then it's also considering going wired instead of using Wi-Fi at home, which is what I'm doing because if I didn't do that, my son Elliot, who's a little bit over one year old will be playing right next to the router because it's in the living room and that's his space. So, it was a huge concern for me. I wanted to walk the talk. And of course, I'm aware of these dangers, and I do my best to reduce my exposure even though I'm very far from perfect. Living in a city, I mean, it's a first offense right there to go low EMF, right. So, Wi-Fi router, it's if you're to use a Wi-Fi router, its minimum use possible. So, turn it off when not in use, especially at night, that will be my advice.

[00:39:36] Scott: Let's talk a little bit more about the calcium conversation. So, does exposure to EMF in the environment, does that lead to an increase of calcium entering the cells? What's the downside of that and how does the whole voltage gated calcium channel discussion come into this conversation?

[00:39:53] Nick: Sure. In 2013, Dr. Martin Pall from the Washington State University, he's a professor emeritus there, PhD, and he has put together the available science. It's not research that he performed himself, but it really connected the dots and our brand new way of looking at what are the mechanisms that could explain how such low level radiation can cause DNA damage or even symptoms in human beings. Because that's again, physicists, engineers are relying on the fact that this is non-ionizing radiation. So, ionization is simply that you can separate a molecule or bonds and create direct DNA damage. And we know that x-rays were this way, gamma rays and different technologies on a medical standpoint that we use were this way. And we know that each time you get additional x-rays or mammograms or other technologies, MRIs, CAT scan, you get increased cancer risk. And that's why at one point, the doc will say enough, we will not like the risks will outweigh the benefits at some point when it comes to screening for this very reason. But the thought with non-ionizing radiation is that now we're below the threshold where it is ionization cannot physically happen, and it doesn't happen. It's just that there's another mechanism that can explain the damage, and that's really an indirect one instead of a direct DNA damage. And what happens is that these, especially the L type, voltage gated calcium channel, that you have several of these channels in every cell and probably other channels as well. But there was no available data about the sodium or potassium channels and other ionic channels in cells are probably affected as well. But the main mechanism seems to be that the sensors that are voltage gated calcium channel. So, there's voltage sensors on there are triggered by this low level electricity. Quite simply put, imagine that you have a sensor that's sensitive to electricity, and you fill the air with electricity, what happens? The sensor gets confused and it stays open. So, the channel stays open and then the calcium gradient that usually. you have very little calcium inside the cell and a lot outside in the extracellular matrix. Now it becomes disturbed.

And what happens with this increase in calcium is that you have multiple calcium dependent enzymes in the cell, two of them in particular, that are that increase nitric oxide in response to all this calcium. And what happens at this point is that nitric oxide levels are very high, and they mixed with superoxide, and this is where really, the problem happens. And there's the formation of peroxynitrite. And then the effects of peroxynitrite are DNA damage, oxidative damage, raise in inflammation, and this entire cycle creates also a loss of mitochondrial energy. And one mechanism that I'm excited for Dr. Mercola to really put this book together and finally launched it because I learned more about the topic. But what he taught me is that the main reason there's a loss of mitochondrial function is that each time you repair a DNA, you use the P-A-R-P, the PARP enzymes. And these PARP enzymes are just sucking up all your NAD reserves. So, your cellular energy, and a lot of people are getting into discussion of adding those as a supplement and what creates -- how can we perform on a higher level by optimizing mitochondrial health? Well, each time you create needless DNA damage, like this 24/7 from all sorts of sources, you exhaust your cellular energy, and it costs a lot plus also, the nutrients that need to be taken or recycled in order to create this energy.

So, it's a whole slew of biological effects that are a consequence. And Dr. Martin Pall and his various papers really explains how his, let's call it a theory, but still, how it explains every possible effect that we have seen in medical literature, like the opening of blood brain barrier, sleep disturbance, nervous system effect. And again, what I told you at the beginning, stands true, and it will all make sense now is that the highest concentration of these health types, BGCCs are in the brain, the hard to reproductive organs, and the nervous system. And this is exactly where the acute symptoms are seen in people who are very sensitive. So, it all makes sense in the end. It seems very strong. There's also Dr. Paul Héroux, from the McGill University here in Montreal, who has looked directly how EMF changed the water structure, the water that helps or that is part of the mitochondrial energy production. And I'm probably butchering his science, but basically what it does is that it makes energy conversion in the mitochondria less efficient and therefore, it will increase the byproducts that is created. Imagine a dirty motor that is leaving very dirty oil behind. So, what happens in that case is that you are actually getting more oxidative stress just by the mere fact that you're producing energy. So, that might be another piece of the puzzle. And we don't know, probably, honestly, 100 things that are happening at once that maybe we'll know in 50 years.

[00:45:36] Scott: Is there a particular time of day when it's most critical to reduce EMF exposure if you're just going to focus on one opportunity, what time of day would that be?

[00:45:45] Nick: At night. At night before bed along with reduction of blue light, I'm sure you've talked about that in length. But it's the same, it looks like there are very similar mechanisms when it comes to the effect of melatonin production, for example. So, it's a double whammy you're getting if you're looking at your cell phone at night, having this blue light stimulus to the pineal gland, halting or reducing melatonin production and then the EMF themselves, the radio frequency radiation also seems to be affecting via probably similar mechanism. There's also the fact that it raises cortisol or triggers adrenaline. So, it puts your nervous system and in the opposite of calming down and going to sleep in other words, so it is definitely a night. And if you're to do one thing, listening to this interview is really removing any sort of wireless device from your bedroom and seeing the difference, including turning off the Wi-Fi router and whatnot. But just this one step. At first, it's tedious, but once you realize you sleep better, it's an easy fix. You don't have to invest in chamomile tea or 5-HTP or things that gets super expensive for sleep and bio hacks. Sometimes you just need to click a few buttons and it's already something that's going to really better your sleep quality.

[00:47:09] Scott: Talk to us a little about the connection between EMFs and our gut microbiome. Is there a threat to our microbiome from EMFs? Do they lead to an imbalance in favor of the pathogenic organisms? Can we have a truly healthy healed gut if we're still exposed to EMFs on a regular basis, and what are the various barriers in the body that EMF actually open?

[00:47:33] Nick: Okay, I'm a lot of -- I'm just trying to be concise here. Okay. EMFs have been shown in rat studies and also, the same markers of blood brain barrier opening have been found in people who are EHS. And so that's -- I'll will butcher to the biomarkers, so I will not mention them. Dominic Balcombe 2015, there are two markers of the presence that showed the presence of a breach in the blood brain barrier for these people. There are also different studies backed by Alan Frey, F-R-E-Y back in the 70s, who have also shown the same things in rats. And there's a few others, also from researchers in Israel, that have also found it. So, it's pretty much established that there can be a breach of the blood brain barrier when it comes to exposure to a cell phone, for example. And we don't know exactly how much is happening, what's the right dose, what's the safe dose that would not do that, etc. It's unclear. But what is also very unclear and very concerning, and this has been identified in the only scientific report I found that being mentioned as follows is the BioInitiative report, which is an amazing collaborative of scientists and researchers who have done their best to summarize the available science in 2007, and then again in 2012. And they're still adding new materials. And they have said the following, they have said, “Well, if it's doing that to the brain, what is it doing to other barriers in the body?” So, the gut barrier, and we know that, at least in functional medicine, and it's a very known fact that there's a such thing as gut permeability, and that it looks like everyone these days has some sort of food intolerance, and that their gut is wide open.

So, why is it happening? There are chemicals that can do that, probably mold, but also possibly EMFs. And what is it doing to the testicular barrier, for example, what is doing to other barriers where you have a certain amount of porosity to just lead the right stuff in? And if you open it, maybe you're even more prone to getting the wrong proteins, for example, that might aggravate your response to a food that becomes an intolerance, or even a toxin that is allowed to go freely in areas where it can wreak havoc. So, when it comes to barriers, so that's one thing, is it contributing to leaky gut? Well, I would think, my personal opinion is that it probably is. It just doesn't make sense, if you're not to use a cell phone next to your head, but you're texting, and I see people really like it's right on the belly button, you're right on the small intestine or on the stomach or down there, it's probably not good. When it comes to the effects on bacteria, you know, we lack the studies and I think that now mainstream science is only starting to recognize the microbiome are really exploding with the microbiome project mapping the human microbiota and starting fecal transplants. I mean, everything is exploding and I'm just following this by the side because I'm saying so focused on EMFs. But it's tremendous what we're discovering about the microbiome, the richness and how many species are in there, and even the number of fungi and viruses in the human body. And we barely are scratching the surface of everything that's happening here in this multitude of multi quadrillion different things that are included in human body.

So, in the few studies that we have, there's a few ones that are extremely concerning. The first one is the Tahery group, T-A-H-E-R-Y. And Tahery is found with its colleagues, that when you have a simple Wi-Fi router, and I think it has been reproduced with a cell phone as well, you have certain strains of bacteria that we know are pathogenic, such as there was one strain of E-Coli, if I recall correctly or Candida, and they can become either less or more antibiotic resistant, depending on the power use and different factors. So, in other words, it's kind of playing Russian roulette, we don't know exactly how it's contributing to antibiotic resistance. We know that antibiotic resistance is a huge issue and we know that we use Wi-Fi in the hospital. So, right there, there's on a medical standpoint, and what can happen about the these, the consequences of these superbugs is extremely concerning. And then there's also different molds, different strains of Candida that we know are problematic in certain patients that are growing faster under the influence of certain frequencies. But the truth be told, we don't know if 900 megahertz is reducing mold, or the bio activity of mold, and then the 2.4 gigahertz from Wi-Fi is increasing it. We don't know exactly.

So, the truth is that considering bacteria, we’re just scratching the surface about even how bacteria communicate with each other using a, for example, low level light, using also millimeter waves. I've heard about that and I hope that's accurate or people are going to say, “Nick, that's all nonsense.” But there are there are different, let's say there are different mechanisms that are being elucidated that are EMF-base between different bacteria. And we barely have enough understanding right now to really know what the consequences are. When it comes to the clinicians again, well, Dr. Klinghardt, we both appreciate the man so much. He told me, “Well Nick, my first line of defense against any gut issues is reducing the EMFs. So, for him there, it's either it's calming down the nervous system, either it’s because of the sleep issue or either it’s directly because the pathogens are sensing EMFs as an attack and becoming more reproducing, becoming more and more resistant, more and more spewing certain toxins, for example, is one explanation I've heard. We don't know exactly. But the truth is that people who treat gut issues and start looking at EMFs is definitely helping when you can minimize your exposure in that sense.

[00:54:21] Scott: Let's talk a little about the connection between EMF and heavy metals. Is our exposure to heavy metals, making us essentially an antenna, which makes us then more hypersensitive?

[00:54:32] Nick: That's one explanation that I've heard is literally that the high metal content of certain cells, especially heavy metals, could literally make it that you attract more of these signals and absorb more of these EMFs. I don't even know if on a biological or engineering standpoint, it even makes sense. However, what I can tell you is that a lot of people with high loads of heavy metals also display symptoms that look like electro hypersensitivity that's found true, for example, even chemicals, I would include chemicals in that. Dominic Balcombe, who's the researcher, I quoted multiple times in this interview has looked at the doctrines of MCS, multiple chemical sensitivity and EHS. And it happens quite frequently, that these two conditions are seen at the same time and they have a lot of similarities. Dr. Martin Pall also talked about that, because his original work before EMFs was about multiple chemical sensitivity. These two things play in synergy and there's really no clear cookie cutter answer here. But I think that if you look at Dr. Martin Pall's research and the biological effects of EMFs and the synergy with the heavy metals, and they play true, the same calcium signaling. The difference with the heavy metals might be that it over stimulates the NMDA receptors. But in the end, it all leads back to intracellular calcium being triggered. So, it all adds to the fire. So, whatever the explanations are, it looks like there's a correlation and that when you are extremely sensitive, trying to remove these metals in one way or another, might be key to reducing these symptoms.

[00:56:30] Scott: And I've seen that I have a friend who's also a mutual friend of Dr. Klinghardt’s that had a smart meter that was unknowingly installed in their home or outside their home and literally felt kind of skin sensations that were almost like a burning or being on fire. They couldn't get out of the home, they couldn't get the smart meter removed. And so the focus became the heavy metal piece. And by detoxifying the heavy metals, they then became less hypersensitive to the smart meter. And so it's definitely an interesting connection. Let's talk a little bit about the connection between EMFs and mold in water damaged buildings. Do we think there's a connection there as well that the EMFs make the molds produce more mycotoxins?

[00:57:12] Nick: There's not a lot of research. Again, Dr. Klinghardt is one person that's quoted often. He has said that he -- and I found -- I asked him about what is the source of this one study that everyone quotes, which is a scientist exposed certain strains of mold to EMFs, whether it was a cell phone or Wi-Fi or router, the story doesn't tell. And he realized that the mold literally feel attacked by these EMFs. And as a response will start spewing out 650 times more biotoxins. And we know that this is something that might happen in the body when people are mold sensitive. Some triggers actually make the mold create this garbage, this poison inside you and you literally feel poison, because you are and you need to detox from it without knowing the whole story about mold illness, it all makes sense. There's not a lot of studies, to be quite honest, if any, there's not a lot of data. But unfortunately, the researcher who published that, well, first it wasn't published because I think he passed away before being able to publish it. But in Dr. Klinghardt’s mind, there's no way that this data wasn't right on. And he's finding this link over and over and over. So, again, mold can act through the exact same mechanism adding fuel to the fire and filling up this bucket as heavy metals, pesticides, and EMFs. There are strong correlations here. So, it all makes sense if people are looking at mold but not a EMFs, and I think that's a very common mistake of looking at one thing being very myopic, I think you might be missing something.

So, in Environmental Medicine, especially if you -- the bucket is overflowing, you become hypersensitive to so many things. I think that in order to reduce the bucket, you do need to remove the mold, but probably reducing EMFs to a minimum possible, especially if you’ve become so sick, just makes a lot of sense. And we don't know what the consequences will be, but if it's contributing to antibiotic resistance, might be also creating super molds, which is, I've heard lately talking to its doctor, Lyn Patrick, who's an ND and she just told me in a recent conversation, that in a hospital they've had mold grow and actually kill a patient. And they had to literally change the flooring because they couldn't wash it off, like the mold would stay there. So, in other words, it's kind of a buzzword, but a super mold. So, a mold that we simply don't know how to get through it, just like it happens with E-Coli or certain pathogen in hospitals where we're facing a huge problem. So, we know that there is such thing right now, even in crops. I mean, we're seeing like super insects or super bugs that are just adapting to this new stress and in the environment, and adapting by becoming more strong and then the human body is just facing bigger threats, it seems.

[01:00:30] Scott: I know you mentioned earlier that when people have got issues that Dr. Klinghardt would say, to reduce the EMF exposure. I know that if someone says they have mold in their home, he would also say to reduce the EMF exposure. And so it really doesn't matter. Reducing the EMF exposure is one of the early things. He used to actually not even take patients on if they weren't willing to reduce their EMF exposure.

[01:00:49] Nick: That's correct.

[01:00:50] Scott: Another area that people talk a lot about of late is mast cell activation, and histamine intolerance. I was at a lecture with Dr. Theo Theoharides earlier this year, and he suggested that master cells are 10 times more activated in the presence of a cell phone. So, that's another pretty significant fact. I mean, if we're already having inflammation from mast cell activation syndrome, the more EMF exposure and EMFs are known to activate mast cells as well. And so that's another reason rather than taking things to stabilize the mast cells and reduce histamine and all those things. One of the first things again, should be to reduce exposure to the EMFs.

[01:01:28] Nick: That's a very, I'm taking notes here because wow, I never heard that. But it actually makes a lot of sense. You know, I interviewed Professor Olle Johansson, who's from -- he's now retired from the Karolinska Institute in Sweden, a very, very prestigious scientific hub for a lot of Nobel Prize winners. And, you know, he's published more than 500 papers on EMFs so far and counting. He's still very, very active, great man. And he told me in an interview, he ran a study with, I think it might be the early 2000s or 90s. And it was basically healthy volunteers, students that had their back to a computer screen. So, they were exposed to is in magnetic fields, or even UV at the time was emitted by these huge screens. So, they were harsher than the screens we have right now, a little bit more of certain types of radiation. But what he saw after taking skin biopsies is that even in these healthy volunteers after two hours, you could see that there was a response of the mast cells migrating to the top layer of the skin as if these people had an allergic reaction. But none of the students ever said I feel itchy or I feel a symptom or I feel like burning anything. So, they didn't feel anything.

And what he wanted to prove is, quite simply that even if you don't feel the EMFs, and it's kind of also proving EMF sensitivity is not all in the head. There's a physical thing that could be measured in the students. And after that, he told me a second thing that was so fascinating, almost like I was freaking out during the interview. He told me that at one point, a few decades ago, they started realizing, scientists started realizing that everyone's histamine levels went up so much that technically, everyone had, let's say, the more than the upper range of what it means to have high histamine. So, at this point, what they had to do is to raise up what is considered abnormal histamine. And one of the possible explanation is electrification of civilization, radio waves from radio and eventually TV, and now the cell phones and everything. So, there are multiple things in an environment that somehow make everyone have higher levels of histamine. Like you cannot find someone that doesn't have levels that 100 years ago would have been considered pretty high. Now, they're considered pretty low, which was I think it's very fascinating studying that the history of what was the normal population, like before we screwed up, before we introduce certain things that we don't know if they're part of the equation that is causing so much chronic disease.

[01:04:23] Scott: So, when we talk about 5G that's put out by let's say a lot of the Wi-Fi routers that people have today. Is that different from the 5G that's coming to our local neighborhoods or is it similar? **

[01:04:36] Nick: Great question. So, the 5G and your wife a router does not mean fifth generation technology. So, these are two different things. It means five gigahertz actually 5.8 gigahertz but they somehow they rounded it up and called it 5G. So, you have two channels in your Wi-Fi router 2.4 gigahertz and the five gigahertz that's actually 5.8. So, people see that in their neighborhood Wi-Fi, and they think oh my God, my neighborhood is 5G. This is not the case. So, the fifth generation of signal is another thing. We’re talking about a mix of lower frequencies just like we're using right now. And a mix of millimeter waves frequencies that go up in well, 60 gigahertz, for example, will be used for Wi Fi, that's a wide gig that's coming in the next few years. The 5G cell phones will use millimeter waves also in 30 plus US cities. And 5G, the main problem with 5G as well the new frequencies that are introduced for everyone have not been tested with a single study supporting its safety, then the power levels are very high. And it's not a low power technology. The industry claims that but what I can gather about the power levels that are emitted close to an antenna is very concerning. So, overall is going to increase the number of people who live near the antenna up. Because, for example, in Montreal, they have plans for 5G. Right now we have 1,200 3G, well, probably 2G to 4G antennas here in the city. The plan is at least 60,000. 5G towers because it's literally one every block or one every couple of homes in residential areas. So, we're talking about an increase of at least 50 times the sheer amount of different cell sites of different towers that are installed. So, this is proximity to the source again, we're trying to distance ourselves from our cell phone and create distance. But now we get the antennas closer to the population. So, what is concerning on an individual standpoint is really the fact that it will be harder to protect yourself if you live near an antenna.

[01:06:46] Scott: So, in our last few minutes, let's talk about ways to measure and some of the potential solutions and then people can refer to the book for more details. So, what is your favorite tool for measuring, someone can get something that's easy to bring into the home and really measure they're environment and can that meter, can it also measure 5G as that's introduced into our neighborhoods?

[01:07:07] Nick: Sure. My favorite one right now to recommend to complete beginner is the ENV RD-10. And that's manufactured by a website that ships worldwide called radmeters.com, R-A-D. The owner, Jaeger is really helpful and he's a great guy who created basically a very simple meter for people to get confused with things and just the learning curve with other meters that are said to be beginner level is pretty high. So, people get very discouraged. This meter is extremely small, we're talking about one inch in width and probably two inches long. It really fits in a pocket. And you have three modes or magnetic fields, RF, and then you have electric electrical fields, and basically you just have a color code here. So, it's not about precise meter that can help you say okay, at these levels at home and compared with what is may be considered safe by certain professions, like building biology, for example, who has certain guidelines on what is safer. We don't know if it's 100% safe, but it's definitely makes more sense than the current guidelines. This meter is more like you go around your home, you find hotspots, you realize that your Wi-Fi router is way too close your living areas, or you can tell if something is emitting or not.

And one of the main problems in reducing EMFs is that something you're missing the fact that for example, your radio might have a Bluetooth capability in there, and you don't realize that it's pulsing every second, even though you're not connecting it to anything Bluetooth. It's just that the machine goes on and on and on. So, when you have the simple meter, it's 140 USD. So, still an investment there's nothing cheaper in my mind, or that I've seen right now that is worth it. The very, very cheap meters are probably junk. If people find some better accurate, let me know. But so far, it's it's really my favorite for complete beginners to go around the area. Unfortunately, well 5G, you know, at first, what is rolled out as 5G is lower frequencies that are still measurable with these kind of meters. But when it gets into millimeter wave range, most meters stop at six gigahertz or eight gigahertz. So, in that case, we would miss it. And I know that the cheapest high-quality meter right now that I could identify is 1,200 USD, for 5G. Eventually will be created a consumer grade 5G meter, it's probably right around the corner. But at the same time, we do need to wait until 5G is a little bit more mature because we don't even know exactly what frequencies will be used by which company. So, it will come.

[01:09:51] Scott: What are some of the top things people should do in their home environment in their sleep location to minimize their exposure?

[01:09:58]  Nick: Sure. First, everything we talked about, the cell phone, create distance airplane mode, if it's in your pocket, don't use it right next to the head. If you use it to talk, use air tube headsets that I think is the safest way to talk on a cell phone. You can look it up online, there's several good brands out there. And when it comes to the bedroom, is cell phone needs to be either off or in airplane mode. Make sure it's not connected to Bluetooth, make sure it's not connected to Wi-Fi. If you're on an iPhone, you would see the blue icon, it says I'm still connected to something. So, you need to make sure that it's not emitting. If you're not sure leave it in another room. Some people do that, they leave it in another room. If you fear that you're going to miss a call in the middle of the night, if you have children, teenage teenage children that are out late and you worry about it, get a landline, get a corded landline and get that phone in your -- just to have this peace of mind. Make it so that when you turn off your cell phone is redirected to the landline and then you're done. People have been doing that for decades, you know. So, it's very important to continue these good habits. In the bedroom, you should really aim to reduce your EMF exposure by removing all sources that could be emitting. If you have a meter you can look around and see if something is emitting that you might have missed. But if you don't have the meter, don't take any chance. Anything that has a Bluetooth capability just goes in another room at night. And something that's extra that I share in the book is turning off the circuit breakers at night, this reduces your exposure to electricity. So, again, it's not like you should freak out because you're living with electricity, or else we would all be in a cave. That being said, if you can get closer to the levels that we're seeing in nature, it just makes sense. So, it's also something that you can do very cheaply.

[01:11:48] Scott: What are your thoughts on the silver lined cloth, the canopies for the sleep location?

[01:11:53] Nick: Dr. Klinghardt really swears by those. It's really controversial I must say when it comes to the clothing, I've seen both sides of really the coin. Some people say you should cover as many body parts as possible even if you don't feel the effect. Some other people say I'm not convinced, I think there are some dangers associated with clothing. In the end, at the moment, I can only follow Dr. Klinghardt’s recommendation, he wears EMF blocking clothing that is either in line with silver or other materials when he's traveling, and he feels way better. So, I can only go by his recommendation right now there's not a lot of studies. There are some people are studying that, like Professor Trevor Marshall from the Autoimmunity Foundation in California and is seeing good early results of people blocking EMF at night wearing a special threaded or shielded cap. But that's very early and these are people with serious autoimmune issues. What he recommends is building literally a Faraday cage in your bedroom. Bed canopies can be used. Dr. Klinghardt does recommend them or it can be shielding paint, some prefer a mix of paint and then curtains. There are different solutions out there.

And let me just to tell a disclaimer is that I'm not a building biologist, and a lot of people ask me, “Nick, what should I do for my room?” And then they start almost sending me pictures and measurements. The truth is, it's true and people want a clear cookie cutter answer. The truth is you need to consult with a professional. There are three types of professionals that I recommend often there's the building biology professionals, hbelc.org, you can just, building biology, Austin building biology, Montreal, and you might be able to find someone, there's a lot of them. The second one would GEOVITAL Academy that they have practitioners worldwide. That's another profession that does I think great things. And the third one is from Brian Hoyer who’s a friend of mine and a great colleague who does really incredible things. And he has now a small team that he's building. They have different mentalities. I think they're cutting edge and it’s called shieldedhealing.com, that's his website. So, either of these professionals, you know, will do way better than you trying to figure this out on your own. So, even if you cannot afford a full survey, which I do recommend, at least give them a call do a Skype consultation saying you know, I have this room I have this source, what should I do? Because what happens is that a lot of people get very frustrated. They invest thousands of dollars and paint or canopies, and they feel sick, so their budget is limited or their on their depth, and they don't feel better. Why? Well, sometimes the job is poorly done. Sometimes you need to, it's really an engineering job, you need someone with the right knowledge to at least  help you do it. It's very, very important, I would never do it by myself even with the knowledge I’ve amassed over three years.

[01:15:01] Scott: It looked like you had a very similar case on your phone to what I have actually. Are there some companies that you found their cell phone cases, laptop barriers, those types of things to be consistently helpful?

[01:15:13] Nick: It's a very controversial issue, I use a case this is SafeSleeve, there's Defender Shield, there's RF Safe, there's a few of them that use a design where you close a flap, and it's supposed to deflect the radiation away from the user. You know, I was talking to the CEO of SafeSleeve this afternoon and telling him that, in my opinion, we need better testing. And he told me about the limitations of the of the testing and how unreliable actually testing and in a very controlled environment might be. So, there are a lot more problems than you think when it comes to testing these devices. So, it's very unclear. Some scientists hate the fact that I recommend blocking cases because in their mind, it's unproven. Some other people in the EMF space, say no, definitely use a case better be safe than sorry. In the end, you want to have a case where you make sure that you're not losing connectivity, by blocking the antenna, which would in fact, make your cell phone increase power in order to connect harder to the to the antenna, it would defeat the whole purpose. In fact, one study showed an increase up 10,000 fold in radiation in poor connectivity areas like an elevator shaft, for example, or under a bridge or in a car. So, these are situations where you actually want to not use your cell phone when the connectivity is low. So, that being said, I don't have a clear answer about the different shielding things, a lot of people hate those. The reality is that people are exposing themselves on a daily basis with a laptop on their lap. I don't think they're going to stop doing it anytime soon. Maybe I'm pessimistic, but I mean, in these cases, I would rather have them block some of the radiation using something like a belly blanket, that is just shielding a cloth that you put over your lap, over your legs. So, it's really a matter of opinion. It's unclear at the moment, you know.

[01:17:17] Scott: I mean, to your point, it's interesting, because a lot of times over the years people will reach out to me concerned that their far infrared sauna might be producing EMFs, and they seem very concerned about it. And they might spend 30 minutes in it three times a week. And then they get out of the sauna and they have the laptop and they have the Wi-Fi and they use the cell phone. And so to me, it's always kind of a concern that it doesn't make a lot of logical sense in my mind, at least. You talked about some of these blocking things that are more physics based, which is what Dr. Klinghardt thinks are really important to minimize the exposure. There's also things that various companies say are more harmonizing. various necklaces and things like that which Dr. Klinghardt generally says we probably shouldn't do unless we're also blocking the exposure than just taking that signal away to say, hey, you need to get out is maybe not a great idea. But have you heard feedback from people that have found any particular necklaces or wearable devices of any help on a consistent basis?

[01:18:15] Nick: A lot of inventors, even the more I get up there, and my message spreads, my community builds, more and more inventors are telling me Nick, I found the one solution. I fixed it, I fixed everything. And then I look at the evidence that they have. And to me it's a little bit too thin. So, for example, we know that BGCCs are being activated, but they don't have any data to support that on a cellular standpoint, their chip or their pendant or their frequency generating thing, a lot of different invention; is it preventing the cellular damage from happening? What I'm seeing is better blood flow, less symptoms that are actually -- I have seen placebo controlled. So, I have seen solid data out there that some of these devices are doing something, they're probably making the body respond in less aggressive way and less a fight or flight way to the radiation. But what is unclear is, is it playing on a symptoms just like Tylenol? Or is it preventing the damage just like avoiding EMF is doing? And this is unclear and this is also what Dr. Klinghardt talks about that you said very clearly is that people who feel better start exposing themselves more. So, there's also an interplay here where you need, if you use one of those don't fall into this false sense of security that I am invincible when it comes to EMFs. I don't think that that's necessarily where the data points at the moment. And I hope that inventions will come where it can be 100% protective, but I don't think it's going to be as simple as that because of how chaotic our EMF environment is we face really something very complicated. And I think that the solutions are probably changing the technology more than inventing something that will be productive. But who knows, I'm open to -- I'm always kind of looking in this direction, but it's very hard to decipher what's true from what's not.

[01:20:13] Scott: Any of those harmonizing tools specifically that you found helpful or companies that you think maybe worth exploring?

[01:20:21] Nick: I hate mentioning brands. Okay. What I'll say is this, in my group of health practitioners, there's the Q-Link pendant that has been repeated over and over and over. I know it's an older one. Some people I've even talked about PEMF technologies helping so even in the case of someone hypersensitive, you probably want to look at how the person feels because PEMF in the end is using otter manmade fields in order to maybe heal on it on a cellular level. So, there's a lot of things that have been mentioned Q-Link - some people have find effects for that. I've heard about Blue Shield. I've heard some people in my circles tell me it's nonsense. Some other people tell me it's magical. So, I don't know who to believe, I've just chosen at the moment to not endorse a single brand when it comes to these metaphysics. Because it doesn't mean I'm not working on it, it's just that publicly, I don't feel good endorsing a brand. But I actually want to be part of those who stay open minded enough to look into it. A lot of people I think, stop there and say, “Oh, these are snake oil things.” Well, if an inventor spent 40 years developing something that snake oil, I can only applaud his dedication to scamming people. Some people maybe are doing that but seriously for -- So, I want to go deeper in the conversation and stay open minded. So, while also be doing actually and starting a podcast later this summer on mainly on safer technologies and how we could have cell phones that are healthy, something that will be really oriented towards inventors and having a chat, an open chat with them saying okay, what is your proof? What are what can you tell me about the technology and those that are more open about it and not secretive well, maybe we'll all learn together. There needs to be something like that, because it's just -- yeah.

[01:22:29] Scott: Are there any nutrients, supplements, anything taken orally that you found to help those with hypersensitivity to EMFs?

[01:22:27] Nick: There's probably vitamin D. Actually, getting it from the sun is probably way, way, way, way more beneficial. But still, vitamin D deficiency was found in people with EHS and the Dr. Bell Palm studies, and I'm pretty sure various others. And there's the vitamin D receptor that can get disabled by electrosmog, and that's Professor Trevor Marshall data. And we don't know exactly what's happening here, but it's very concerning. Another thing would be my magnesium that is a natural calcium channel blocker, sufficient magnesium levels would be huge, and also levels of other metals. If you're looking at the mechanisms of harm of ionizing radiation, they're very similar as non-ionizing radiation in the end, they lead to the same oxidative damage, DNA damage. So, if you look at anything that protects you from ionizing radiation, including iodine, there's probably good reasons to think that it's also protective for non-ionizing radiation to some degree. So, again, that's not clear. Everything that's protective, it looks like it's a mix of antioxidant, molecular hydrogen or hydrogen rich water and inhalation is something that's mentioned. Intermittent fasting, exercise, anything that will raise up internal antioxidant production, like glutathione or SOD or dismutase or catalase - sorry, and different things like that fasting, for example, just for the protective effect. There's a lot of things that are mentioned, but it's not clear which one is the best, so to speak.

[01:24:17] Scott: Right. Yeah, and I know Dr. Klinghardt talks about rosemary and propolis as two other options as well. So, as we wrap up, I know that you donate 5% of your profits to the Environmental Health Trust, which is awesome. Your book is fantastic, The Non-Tinfoil Guide to EMFs. Tell us a little bit about the book, and then also for practitioners tell us a little about your Electrosmog Rx Course.

[01:24:38] Nick: Sure, well, we donate 5% to different organizations. EH Trust is one I very respect. Right now we just launched so I'm actually looking at different possibilities who we’re going to give to. And when you start doing that, it's not an easy process. You want to give to everyone, you know, there's Olle Johansson the researcher I told you about that right now he needs funding just to operate, just to continue doing studies because he's been cut short of all funding, which is, to me just a disgrace that's such a prestigious scientist, someone dedicating his life doesn't even have a living right now to do these studies, and his brain needs to be put to use. So, there's that, there's a few studies that need financing, and there's so many great organizations it’s just almost overwhelming process. But we're just starting to get into it and we're very happy to do it. The different solutions that I have right now, The Non-Tinfoil Guide to EMFs is still valid, it's almost two years old, still very valid, the recommendations in there. With 5G, things are becoming a little bit more complicated, but the book is still there, people are purchasing it, people are loving it. So, I'm really happy that the feedback is still good. And I'm thinking about a future book, but I don't think my wife Gen would allow me to write a new book right now. Maybe in two years, two three years.

Right now, we have a course that we launched in 2018, called Electrosmog Rx. It is based on Dr. Klinghardt’s knowledge, but also the knowledge of so many scientists that are doing amazing work at the European Academy for Environmental Medicine. There's the Austrian Medical Association. And what I've done as a journalist is take the best of all these different sources that do talk -- have created, let's say the early version of what is it to diagnose, treat, and try to ameliorate EMF related symptoms. And it's really a new science because it's a new problem. So, there's not a lot of data, but what I've done is summarize what we do know and also what we do not know and also given tools to help practitioners on how to talk to their patients, patient handouts, for example, a questionnaire that they can use for EMF related symptoms and such. So, it's a very applicable course and you can find it, ElectrosmogRx.com. And if people want to hear more about me, in general, it's TheEMFGuy.com, and there's a link to my Youtube --

[01:27:08] Scott: I’ll put all those in the show notes as well.

[01:27:11] Nick: Yeah. And that's where people can hear about me in the future.

[01:27:14] Scott: So, my last question is the same for all of my guests, what are some of the key things that you do on a daily basis in support of your own health?

[01:27:22] Nick: I do wake up in the morning, I am starting to do a gratitude for five minutes. I've been really struggling with this one. I'm trying to get as much sun as possible, very hard because I work inside, but in the afternoon I have a rooftop patio. So, without going into details, I don't wear any clothes on the patio to get my full body exposed about until I turned pink. So, these days is like 10 minutes and then I'm very, very Caucasian in very simple terms.

[01:27:55] Scott: You and me both.

[01:27:56] Nick: Yes, but I'm getting a tan a little bit. So, I know these are foundational things. I do my best to quit caffeine. I've been struggling this year. But whenever I quit caffeine, I feel better is just that the first 10 days are hard. And then when I get back into the habit, I feel better, but for two days, and then it just takes a toll on me. So, it's a very bad habit to have and I do that I do - What do I do? I do intermittent fasting. So, reduced eating window, I eat between noon and seven. I follow the KetoFast, the latest book from Dr. Mercola. So, that's something to look at as well. So, that's basically a whole day of fasting per week or two, where you have a special, you basically have breakfast, and then you fast until the next day and on the next day you have a hard workout. So, you're in a very - state and the breakfast has specific nutrients. There's an entire science that I recommend reading the book, and I do also ozonated water. And at the moment I'm working on a few pathogens and viruses with, shout out to Dr. Tim Jackson, who's following me was really an incredible health geek and great support right now. So, I've been on and off feeling extremely fatigued, and throughout my work and really exhausting myself. Feeling very good these days but I still have to really, really look at what I'm doing, what I'm eating, and my stress levels. It's really my stress levels, you know, I'm operating in a topic that is depressing, sometimes it's hard on the nerves. There's politics, there's a lot of emails, there's launches, and even having, I mean, whether you're in a nonprofit or for profit, I don't care, if you work hard it's very stressful and being around the computer all day. So, I'm still trying to find my balance among all these things but I'm getting better at it, I think.

[01:29:55] Scott: Excellent. Well, I know you are on the East Coast, it's getting late for you. I know you have your intermittent fasting window is about to close for the day. So, you need to get some food. So, it's been a great discussion. You've been generous with your time. I appreciate your book. I appreciate all the information you put out, everything that you're doing to help people find new answers and new solutions. And thank you so much for being here today, Nick.

[01:30:16] Nick: Thank you so much, Scott. I had a great time and it means a lot of what you're saying.

[01:30:21] To learn more about today's guests visit TheEMFGuy.com. That's The EMF Guy, G-U-Y.com, TheEMFGuy.com. Thanks for your interest in today's show. If you'd like to follow me on Facebook or Twitter you can find me there as Better Health Guy. To support the show please visit BetterHealthGuy.com/donate. If you'd like to be added to my newsletter visit BetterHealthGuy.com/newsletters, and this and other shows can be found on YouTube, iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher and Spotify.

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