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In this episode, you will learn about the application of Pulsed Electromagnetic Field (PEMF) therapy in supporting health and wellness.

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About My Guest

My guest for this episode is Dr. William Pawluk.  William Pawluk, MD, MSc is a holistic doctor near Baltimore, MD.  He has held academic positions at Johns Hopkins and University of Maryland.  His is trained in acupuncture, nutrition, herbals, energy medicine, homeopathy, hypnosis, bodywork, and multiple other therapies.  He is considered the foremost authority on the use of Pulsed Electromagnetic Field (PEMF) therapy in North America.  His areas of interest include holistic pain management, regenerative health, stem cell stimulation, anti-aging, sleep, and anxiety.  His main emphasis is using PEMFs as a new solution for stubborn, chronic, and frustrating health problems.  He strives to try to resolve the cause of the problem and not to simply put a Band-Aid on it.   Most conventional treatments for pain rely on “numbing and dumbing,” that simply make the perception of pain better but don’t heal the cause.  After 25 years of seeing the risks and side effects of traditional health solutions and approaches, and after studying various healing modalities, he discovered that PEMFs provide the most benefit and allow safe, non-toxic, self-directed, self-controlled, at-home pain management.  He has authored a comprehensive book on healing with magnetic fields called “Power Tools for Health.” 

Key Takeaways

  • If EMF is bad, how can PEMF be good?
  • Has the earth's magnetic field changed over time?
  • What are the cellular and biological benefits of PEMF?
  • How is PEMF different from Rife?
  • What is the role of gauss and waveform in working with PEMF?
  • How might electrolytes synergize the effects of PEMF?
  • What is the role of PEMF in supporting the production of ATP in the mitochondria?
  • How might PEMF help support those with hypercoagulation?
  • How might PEMF therapy support the immune system and act as an indirect microbial support intervention?
  • Can PEMF support structural integrity in those with hypermobility or Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome?
  • Does PEMF have the potential to help improve the terrain and support detoxification?
  • Can the nervous system be calmed with the incorporation of PEMF therapy?
  • How might PEMF be helpful in dysautonomias such as POTS?
  • What is the role of PEMF therapy in supporting restorative sleep?
  • What are the contraindications for PEMF?
  • What devices does Dr. Pawluk recommend?



Power Tools for Health Book

Interview Date

December 18, 2020


Transcript Disclaimer: Transcripts are intended to provide optimized access to information contained in the podcast.  They are not a full replacement for the discussion.  Timestamps are provided to facilitate finding portions of the conversation.  Errors and omissions may be present as the transcript is not created by someone familiar with the topics being discussed.  Please Contact Me with any corrections.      

[00:00:01.08] Welcome to BetterHealthGuy Blogcasts, empowering your better health. And now, here's Scott, your Better Health Guy.

[00:00:14.09] The content of this show is for informational purposes only and is not intended to diagnose, treat, or cure any illness or medical condition. Nothing in today's discussion is meant to serve as medical advice or as information to facilitate self-treatment. As always, please discuss any potential health-related decisions with your own personal medical authority.

[00:00:34.21] Scott: Hello everyone, and welcome to episode number 134 of the BetterHealthGuy Blogcasts series. Today's guest is Dr. William Pawluk, and the topic of the show is PEMF.  Dr. William Pawluk is a holistic doctor near Baltimore, Maryland. He's held academic positions at Johns Hopkins and the University of Maryland.

He's trained in acupuncture, nutrition, herbals, energy medicine, homeopathy, hypnosis, bodywork, and multiple other therapies. He is considered the foremost authority on the use of pulsed electromagnetic fields, or PEMF, therapy in North America. His areas of interest include holistic pain management, regenerative health, stem cell stimulation, anti-aging, sleep, and anxiety. His main emphasis is using PEMFs as a new solution for stubborn, chronic, and frustrating health problems.

He strives to try to resolve the cause of the problem and not simply to put a Band-Aid on it. Most conventional treatments for pain rely on "numbing and dumbing" that simply makes the perception of pain better but doesn't heal the cause after 25 years of seeing the risks and side effects of traditional health solutions and approaches and after studying various healing modalities.

He discovered that PEMFs provide the most benefit and allow safe, non-toxic, self-directed, self-controlled at-home pain management. He has authored a comprehensive book on healing with magnetic fields called "Power Tools for Health." And now, my interview with Dr. William Pawluk.

Dr. William Pawluk is well known for his use of pulsed electromagnetic field therapies or PEMF. This is the incorporation of physics into a health improvement strategy, and as a personal fan of light and sound, vibration and frequency, I'm really excited to talk with Dr. Pawluk today. Thank you so much for being here.

[00:02:36.02] Dr. Pawluk: It's my pleasure. I look forward to chatting with you and sharing ideas.

[00:02:40.22] Scott: Many of our listeners are dealing with complex chronic conditions such as Lyme disease, mold illness, mast cell activation, hypermobility, Ehlers-Danlos, dysautonomias, things of that nature, various neurological conditions.

And so I want to kind of frame the conversation around how tools in the PEMF realm might help some of the issues that people are dealing with that are at the root of many of these conditions.

So first, let's talk a little bit about what was your personal journey that led you to do the work you're doing today? And why did PEMFs emerge as such a focus of your work?

[00:03:15.00] Dr. Pawluk: Well, I was originally a family physician in a pretty traditional setting. I was a medical director for a group of 15 doctors, actually 30 doctors. I built the largest group of family physicians on the whole east coast of the US for years; there may be some bigger now at some of the universities. But for the most part, it was a big group.

And we shared patients; we would do hospital rounds, we take care of people in the hospital, admitting them, discharging them as well as working in the office setting. And in a short period of time, we had two or three patients that almost died from Ibuprofen. They almost died from GI bleeding, acute GI bleeding. They were in shock; they were really at death's door.

And after that happened again, not just once or twice, but several times. I knew the consequences. Every time we prescribe Ibuprofen to patients, we know that there are risks, and those risks are well known. GI bleeding and kidney disease are the two biggest. So after the second or third, I said, okay, this is crazy medicine.

This is the definition truly of insanity.  Doing the same thing over and over again, expecting you're not going to have any bad results, right? A sort of a different take on insanity. So I decided to look at other options that were not available within the community, the medical community within which I was working. And being a medical director, I was looking at a lot of stuff. Because not just my own history, my own cases, but the cases that I shared with the rest of the group. So I decided to study acupuncture, going completely outside the medical box. And at that time, when I started to look at acupuncture, there were maybe 300 doctors in the U.S. who had studied acupuncture.

At that time, acupuncture was not that common either. There were thousands of acupuncturists, but not as many as there are today. So that was like around I'd say 1987, 88 that I began that journey. So when I finished with studying acupuncture, then I started trying to give people, do acupuncture on people. Now it's a little bit different for me as a physician doing acupuncture because people expect different things from me as a physician than if I was an acupuncturist.

They go to an acupuncturist because they know what they're going for. When they go to a physician, they're going to a physician. And when I say let's do acupuncture, they say what? Because they don't know any other physicians who do that. So that's a big question mark, you know all kinds of flashy lights go off. Why would this doctor be doing that?

So I discovered that since I couldn't do needles that easily, I decided to study the use of magnets on acupuncture points. Because I knew that you could stimulate acupuncture points in a lot of ways. With lasers and friction and heat and so on, so I learned about magnets. I started working with magnets on acupuncture points and discovered along the way that magnets were doing something different that acupuncture needles weren't doing.

They were actually healing tissue underneath the magnet. So if you put a magnet here, that's called the Hegu point or Hoku point. You put a magnet here that will stimulate the acupuncture system. Put a needle there, same thing. But if you have a lesion right at that spot, or if you have arthritis in that joint right there, the magnet would help the arthritis, and it would still do the things that the needle would do.

Maybe not quite as potently, but it could still do that. So then I started working much more extensively with magnets, and the rest, as they say, is history. So I started working extensively, started studying, and researching why magnets would have any effects on the body; it doesn't make any sense. I mean, this is tissue, right? You pull that up it's tissue. It's not electrical; doctors wouldn't normally think of this as being an electrical.

We know that nerves conduct charge; in other words nerves are very electrical. But veins aren't electrical; blood vessels aren't electrical, skin is not electrical. Of course, that's a lie because acupuncturists know that that's not the case. And we know now for a lot of work, including the Body Electric with Dr. Robert Becker, that the body is an electromagnetic apparatus. Well, at the time, again, it was just the beginning of the exploration. Over time, I started working with pulsed magnetic fields, as well as the static magnets. And now I've moved over essentially mostly to pulse magnetic fields, for the important reason that they go deep into the body, magnets on the skin do not go deep into the body.

They work on acupuncture points, which mostly are pretty superficial. And acupuncture meridians, which are mostly pretty superficial. But if you want to heal a lung or a kidney or in the brain, if you want to stimulate it, you can stimulate it with acupuncture principles. You can stimulate it with electrical stimulation. You can stimulate it with light and sound and other ways of stimulating the nervous system. But they don't heal the tissue directly.

So what I discovered over those years was that magnets actually begin to heal the tissue directly. And at one point, I met a medical director, a doctor actually from the Czech Republic, was an MD, PhD, who did his PhD in electromagnetic therapy. And he had translated for his thesis and his work, in government as well. He had translated a lot of that eastern European literature, which was in the Russian alphabet, written in Russian.

So it was not accessible to us, and that was a frustration to me. As I was learning, it was a big frustration because I didn't have access to science. And then finally, I got a copy of the manuscript; we collaborated together and produced a book called Magnetic Therapy in Eastern Europe: A Review of 30 Years of Research. So now I had science on how PEMFs work, clinical conditions on which they've been shown to benefit.

[00:09:07.04] Scott: One of the most common questions that I get from people that I'd love for you to explain is, people are so aware these days of the potential negative effects of EMFs from cell towers and cell phones and smart meters and so on. So if EMFs are bad for us, how are PEMFs good for us? There is so much focus these days on avoiding EMFs, and so I'm wondering if you can clarify that issue.

[00:09:33.01] Dr. Pawluk: Yes, let's get the elephant out of the room. And that's a very important distinction; they are both electromagnetic. But as we know, the electromagnetic spectrum includes light; it includes color. So there's a whole lot more going on the electromagnetic spectrum. Color is a very high frequency, the EMFs I call them environmental magnetic fields just for ease of separation of the two. They are electromagnetic, but they're really environmental.

Otherwise, they're synthetic, they're created for specific purposes that have nothing to do with health or to help the body. Now there are electromagnetic devices that are used by doctors, radiofrequency to do what we call ablation or to burn tissue on purpose, to burn tissue. That's a different aspect of that spectrum, so that's designed to burn, that's designed to kill and destroy tissue. The environmental magnetic fields, for the most part, that are the most harmful to us are the high frequency, which includes microwaves.

So cell phones are microwaves, Wi-Fi is microwaves, and why do we have microwave ovens. Because they heat tissue, they heat stuff. So why do they heat? They heat because the wavelengths are so short as they're projected into something, a substance of some kind, let's say meat or soup, they heat it. Because the microwaves are so short, they're absorbed in that substance. And as a result of the absorption and the continuous stimulation of that substance, it basically heats it.

It produces heat, and therefore it destroys things. Electromagnetic therapies are very low frequencies, we call them ELF PEMFs, extremely low frequency. So microwaves are extremely high frequency, and we call magnetic field therapy extremely low frequency. So when you're under about 100 megahertz, then the wavelengths are about three meters long. So around 100 megahertz wavelengths are about three meters long. When you get way up into the microwave level, you're talking about millimeters or even smaller wavelengths, extremely tiny.

So the environmental fields are heating fields, they're tissue destroying fields. They are genetically disruptive fields, but again they tend to harm the body. Now short exposures often are not a big deal, very short exposures. But when you're wearing a telephone to your head for hours at a time, you're cooking your ear, and you're cooking your brain on that side. Not as potently as you would by putting your head in a microwave oven because you have to take your head off.

[00:12:27.09] Scott: That's a really helpful explanation; I think that will be something people can understand. But let's take it one step further. So many people these days have electromagnetic hypersensitivity syndrome or what's called EHS.

So if someone is sensitive to EMFs, can they use PEMF therapy? And is it possible that PEMF therapy could even help those people that are sensitive become less sensitive over time to what you called environmental electromagnetic fields?

[00:12:56.20] Dr. Pawluk: There are truths, there are exaggerations of truths, and then there are falsehoods. So EHS is really hard to pin down. Somebody says that they have EHS, I have no choice but to believe them. But how do you prove it? There's no test for it; you have to take their word for it. And there's was a study done for people who said they had EHS, where they sham, did a sham treatment.

So they gave them the real treatment, with a real electromagnetic field, and they had a stimulator that did not have a magnetic field turned on. They couldn't tell the difference. So a substantial percentage of the people could not tell the difference between real and sham. So that said, if I have a magnetic field and I expose it to myself, then my skin turns red.

Clearly, there's a physiologic response. Now, if I'm blinded to it, and I don't know that it's happening, and my skin turns red. Say I'm standing behind a sheet of paper or a wall, and you have an effect, then you can feel it. I had a story of a guy who used to come home from work, would sit on the couch reading the paper or watching T.V. His head was up against the wall, right on the other side of the wall was a microwave that his wife was cooking with.

And he would get a headache every single time he did that. Lo and behold, they discovered that microwave had a leak. So he was, in fact, having a radiation reaction, in a sense of radiation, not like you know nuclear radiation material.

But he was having a radiation reaction to that microwave, very potent magnetic field. I think it's real, but I think we have to be careful and try to say what is somebody's worst fears happening, as opposed to somebody actually having a physiological reaction to it. Other than a fear reaction or an anxiety response.

[00:14:58.07] Scott: In those people where we say they do have true EHS, would you say that they are still a candidate for PEMF therapy? Or maybe is that a contraindication?

[00:15:11.25] Dr. Pawluk: No. So, unfortunately, I've had to work with people who have had that diagnosis and thought that they had those reactions. And so you have to get them to tell you or describe to you the circumstances under which they have their reactions. So there's several approaches that you can take. First of all, I would have them exposed to only one frequency at a very low intensity and with a very short treatment time.

And then what you do is you gradually bring up the time, the treatment time, and the intensity; I call that going low and slow. And see where they start to experience symptoms. Now magnetic field therapy, why does that actually happen to people? EHS, I don't know if you have an explanation; I think I might.

[00:15:58.26] Scott: You know I know with the, that there are the calcium channels and calcium influx into the cells. I also know Dr. Theo Theoharides will say that even exposure to a cell phone will activate the mast cells by tenfold. So I think those are two potential ways that I would consider it, maybe that's different from your thoughts.

[00:16:19.14] Dr. Pawluk: No, I would agree, mast cells can be activated by EMFs or PEMFs or your television or certainly having a clock radio by your bedside, so for sure. So I think most of the time, I think that that's happening in an environment of hyperexcitability.

So it's happening in an environment where there's a lot of inflammation in the tissue, where the nerves are irritated, and they're inflamed, and they're hyperexcitable. So any shift or change in that physiology will fire off neurons. Have you heard of the word allodynia?

[00:16:55.06] Scott: Yes.

[00:16:55.21] Dr. Pawluk: All right. So in a sense, this is like allodynia. It may not be experienced as pain, but it's experienced as certainly as a sensory overreaction if you will over-reaction to something that you and I might not react to, but somebody else does. I had a patient who actually had that kind of hypersensitivity when it was a storm, she's in Baltimore area, and she could experience storms hitting the West Coast.

When she starts to feel awful, she'd get headache, she'd feel sick, she felt dizzy, nauseous. She would look at the weather and see if a storm was hitting the West Coast, and sure enough. Until it passed all the way through, she was a mess because her brain was basically hot. Threshold for reactions had dropped so low that almost anything was going to activate or trigger her.

[00:17:42.16] Scott: That makes a lot of sense to me. And the listeners of this podcast are probably that population of people, because with mold illness, mold exposure, chronic Lyme disease, those types of things, they're already a much higher level of inflammation that then is making people more sensitive.

And then also the limbic system component of that as well, where the limbic system's been triggered and then reacts to threats that are maybe not actual threats, or they're very small threats, and the limbic system overreacts to them.

[00:18:15.20] Dr. Pawluk: Overreacts, but that's also chronic. It's not usually a single event. Usually, it's not a single event. Usually, it's not a single factor. It's rare that it's one single factor. Most of the time, you got an overlay of a lot of different things going on, a hyperactive immune system, hyper-irritated nerves.

A lot of inflammation in the tissues, and you're often going to have everything that you just said, but you're also going to; of the most common factors I find is EBV, Epstein-Barr virus. 85% of the population has it. Epstein-Barr virus does not leave your body; it latches into the white blood cells of the body. The lymphocytes of the body and it replicates in the lymphocytes and passes on from lymphocyte generation to lymphocyte generation.

So it's always there, traveling around the body to wherever you have inflammation. And that's the job of lymphocytes, is to go to the fire, to go to quench that fire. And very often, the lymphocytes and the macrophages, which are also scavengers in the body, will lyse; they die. And when they die, they break apart, and what do they do when they break apart? Wherever the fire happens to be, they dump their loads. So they dump the heavy metals, they dump the pesticides, insecticides, the other viral particles.

Bacteria, fungi, parasites, parts of parasites, all of those get dumped into that area of inflammation. So the more inflammation you have, the more that dumping happens in that area as well. And some tissues are clearly much more sensitive to all this than others, and then physiology and genetics and all these variable factors determine what happens in a given individual. And so it's very hard to deal with these things by only a single approach. You really have to use a multi, a pronged approach to help people with these kinds of issues.

[00:20:01.21] Scott: Yes, absolutely agree. I have the honor to write an article with Dr. Garry Gordon on this topic of PEMF almost ten years ago. I know you have collaborated with him as well. Funny enough, in that article, we actually mentioned you ten years ago.

Let's start by talking about healthy magnetic fields; the earth itself has a magnetic field.  Some people refer to that as the Schumann resonance or 7.83 hertz or cycles per second. How important is the earth's magnetic field in terms of our health? And is it true that it is either declining or shifting, such that it may not offer that same health-supporting frequency that we had years or decades ago?

[00:20:42.08] Dr. Pawluk: All right. So let's clarify some of these points that you're making. I think they're valid, but they're slightly not correct. Number one, the earth's magnetic field by itself is static, it's not in motion, all right. It's just there. Like the same thing happens with a magnet, a fridge magnet. Once it's made, it's there; it doesn't shift, doesn't change.

So the earth's magnetic field lines are; circumvent the planet, makes this go around the entire planet. The North Pole, South Pole, that's static. Now what you said is correct, too, the Schumann resonances. But in a sense, that's not a magnetic field, not like the earth's magnetic field. So the Schumann resonances are actually created by lightning storms around the planet, and they resonate in the ionospheric cavity. So there's a cavity, an atmospheric cavity.

And they resonate within that cavity. And they collect together; they dance, they sing, they work together basically to create the Schumann resonances. Now there are about seven resonances, not one; there's seven. Now, if you will, in terms of the aggregate resonances, the averaged resonance is thought to be about 7.83 hertz. But our brains are tuned to the ionosphere. If you look at human brainwave patterns, they are exactly like the Ionospheric frequencies.

So a lightning strike in Sri Lanka is perceived in North America, like my patient, it's perceived in North America within seconds. But how many lightning strikes are there around the planet at any given time? Hundreds of thousands, if not millions. So they're all talking, they're all spreading frequencies into the atmosphere. So they're not really magnetic per se, but they are electromagnetic. So they're ionospheric, and they interact with the ions in the atmosphere, and molecules in the atmosphere, and so on.

The next point that you made is that the earth's magnetic field, yes, there has been a change, a drop in the earth's magnetic field over millennia. Hundreds of thousands of years, millions of years. That drop is not significant, it's not like it's gone from a hundred to five. But it may have dropped from maybe, right now it's about point five gauss approximately, averaged. And around the planet, there's a variation in that field as well.

It's not uniform, through the on the surface of the planet altogether. And in my book "Power Tools for Health," I talk about other kinds of magnetic fields that we're exposed to as well. The magnetic fields are the rocks that we walk on and the earth’s surface itself. And if we're barefoot or we're earthing, then we're experiencing interaction with the soil, and that creates charges in the body as well. So those are electromagnetic interactions too.

The question about the loss of the field over time means that, yes, that we probably are a little less supported by the natural magnetism of the planet than we were a hundred thousand years ago or a million years ago. Now, does that make us more vulnerable? That's a good question. And I think, generally speaking, I would say that we can say that that's true. Because I'll tell you about experiment, there's an experiment done in Germany called the Andechs (a-n-d-e-c-h-s) experiment.

And in this experiment, they took volunteers and put them into caverns. If they weren't caverns, they were actually closed quarters; there were bunkers. They were actually called bunkers, so they put them in bunkers. They completely isolated them from the environment. No pressure changes, no sound, no light, no atmospheric changes, and they removed, they created what's called a faraday cage. They removed the magnetic field around them.

So now they were environmentally isolated. And what they found is that their circadian rhythms dysregulated. Now they didn't go from 100 to zero again; they shifted by 10 or 15 percent. Because they're still in the earth, even though they were isolated from the earth's magnetic field, they were still in the earth, and they still had their own natural processes in their bodies that were producing charge and energy and activity and so on. So nevertheless, they dysregulated.

Then they started reintroducing electrical fields or magnetic fields back into the bunkers; they did all kinds of frequencies. And what they found is that 10 hertz, ten cycles per second, restored their circadian rhythms. It is said that experiment was funded by and supported by the U.S government. Because they were looking at what happens to people who go to space and don't have those fields of the earth. The light, the sound, the pressure, all that temperature changes, they don't have that in space.

So they want to see what happened to people who are isolated, that's the theory at least, that's the conjecture. So at least we did find out that that kind of isolation dysregulates. And so what we can say then is that you take away the magnetism of the earth, that people will, in fact, dysregulate. Now, if you follow them for decades, way into their lifespans. If you do that with a chick, that becomes a chicken, that becomes an old rooster or whatever.

Then you might see different levels of dysregulation happen. Because if you're starting very young, then that dysregulatory pattern then begins to what we call remodeled tissues. The tissues begin to physically change themselves based on the level of stimulation that you have. And we see that in medicine on a regular basis. If you subject something to a regular pattern, that's going to shift and change physically to the pattern that you're subjecting it to.

So if you do the opposite, you remove the pattern. Then what happens is the body's going to find his own natural level of homeostasis, to be whatever it's going to be without that stimulation. So the long answer to your question, that basically yes. If you remove or drop the magnetic field of the earth, the theory because we don't have really good proof of this. The theory is that it will cause a shift and change in our physiology and anatomy.

[00:27:03.20] Scott: I've heard some people refer to this as magnetic deficiency syndrome. We know that we need healthy air and healthy water and healthy food and things like that. Is it possible that we need exposure to healthy magnetic fields or pulsed electromagnetic fields to optimize our health?

[00:27:23.16] Dr. Pawluk: Well, do you know what the most common magnetic deficiency syndrome is? Not moving. Why? If you don't use it, you lose it, all right. When I do this with my arm, clench my fist and flex my arm, there's a charge of current that flows through the fascial planes, between the fascial planes, in the fluids of the fascial planes at the rate of three meters a second. What's that doing? It's stimulating the tissue. It's creating its own electromagnetic field, right?

So yes, if you don't use your body. We're designed to be in motion, we're not designed to lay all day long, okay. That's why you see older people when they start laying in bed all day long, they degrade very rapidly, right? So yes, we need electromagnetic fields. And motion on the surface of the planet, along the ley lines of the planet. The ley lines which are the surface magnetic fields. And then the electromagnetic fields of the planet.

As you're crossing a magnetic field line is when you feel the most stimulation. If you're going up and down, north and south, in a magnetic field line, you're not stimulating your body very much. If you go east to west, you're creating the most stimulation because there's a lot of variation in those field lines as you move across. Especially if you go tangentially because they're stronger north than they are at the equator. So if you're moving tangentially, you're creating the most change.

That's how dowsers do their jobs, they're detecting the field changes, the magnetic field changes around them, and underneath their feet when they're doing their dosing work. I've dosed healers, I've doused individuals, and the healers have these huge dosing fields. They're producing, projecting a huge electromagnetic field compared to somebody who's tightened up and closed down. So let's go back to your question, do we need magnetic field therapy?

And you could even start the premise with the fact that the earth's magnetic field is decaying to whatever extent it is. Even if it's minimal, it's still going to be a magnitude of change in the body. But we have another process that's going on too, and that's called aging. And that goes back to entropy. So entropy is the energy that you need to maintain a structure.

And we are dynamic structure; our bodies are physical structures that need motion, that need stimulation, need nutrition, need all sorts of things to keep them that way. But no matter what we do, we're going to age. I don't know one person who has been flat from age 40 to age 90, has not aged a bit. Maybe I haven't met enough people, but as a physician, I can tell you I've met huge numbers of people. So the answer to your question is we all need magnetic field therapy.

We need that support. And it doesn't matter what the condition is, just generally speaking, in order to keep up with entropy. We need magnetic field stimulation because we're not getting it naturally. So we need to bring it in; we need to give ourselves the additional boost of that possible stimulus that we can't create naturally. So we can defend ourselves against the environmental magnetic fields, the EMFs, which are causing stress on us.

So if that's causing stress, how do you protect yourself from the stress? You amplify the good in the body. Amplify the total amount of charge that the body can basically take that hit, right? If I take a big hit to my arm, it's going to fly away, will fly away. But if I just do this tapping, and that's what aging is, this tapping. Every now and then, we take a big hit, and we need a lot more help. But most of the time, if we're just getting this tapping on a constant basis by the environmental fields, by aging, by stress today, lack of nutrition today.

I didn't eat a good meal today, I ate one bad meal today, and the rest of them were good. But what did that one bad meal do today? What happened about that fight I had on the phone with my spouse or my kid, or I missed a promotion at work, or I lost a bunch of money on the stock market. All of that demands a reaction by the body, which then the body needs to be able to meet. That level of demand or stress to maintain itself at a sufficient level of functionality and energy.

All diseases are basically energy deficiency, all diseases. There are demand on the body and a demand beyond homeostasis. The homeostasis being that you're very level, your body's constantly adjusting itself around that midline, if you will. You may be going up and down, but you're basically going to, you project it over time. It's a very neutral sort of oscillation around that line, not a huge, not big peaks and valleys.

[00:31:45.16] Scott: So let's come back then and talk more about symptoms and conditions where you might think that the application of PEMF might be helpful for someone. I know there's conditions where it's approved, and conventional medicine thinks of it, and then there's a whole nother breadth of conditions where it may actually be helpful, even though that's not the common go-to on the conventional medicine side.

[00:32:06.15] Dr. Pawluk: Before I address that question, let's go back to the point you just made, conventional medicine. What's the history of conventional medicine? It's repairing a wound from a spear that ended up in your arm. It's helping you to fight off an infection. So what were the most common causes of people dying 100 years ago, 150 years ago? Infection and trauma.

And also probably environmental, so either too much heat or too much cold, and the body could not keep up with the demand on it to maintain its homeostasis. So the conventional medicine is designed basically to take us away from the farthest excursions from health, right? So that we can sort of nudge ourselves back. It's not designed for health maintenance.

[00:32:48.18] Scott: I agree.

[00:32:49.29] Dr. Pawluk: Right, we can agree on that. So what do you have to do for health maintenance? This is where the question that you asked becomes really important. In my book, it's not about the disease. It's about the effects of disease or the effects of whatever your body's going through that need to be restored back into balance.

So magnetic field therapy is used like medicine would be used for things like pain, circulation problems, swelling, infection, trauma, fractures. So those are the sort of the worst cases. But when you apply magnetic fields alongside whatever you have to do conventionally, that'll happen faster to get you back into homeostasis, to get you back at the recovery. In my book, I outline 25 different. I provide references of at least 25 different mechanisms of action of magnetic field.

Circulation I just mentioned is one of them; anti-inflammatory is a big one. Pain reduction, just simple pain reaction without doing anything else; it can basically stop your pain. Generally, accelerating healing, reducing pain in my mind is the very first step of dealing with the pain problem. The next step is to improve function, and the last step if you will, well, actually, the last step is preventing it from happening again. But the last step would be to actually heal the tissue so that this pain doesn't come back.

So in my mind, you're using magnetic field therapy along that whole spectrum. If you think of it just for painkilling effects, which is sometimes all you can do. If you're bone on bone in a joint, there's not much you're going to be able to do. Because in order to stop the pain in that joint, you have to restore the joint. And most of the therapies that anybody has make you feel better with your pain. But when you do imaging studies of those people say I'm cured, well, they're not cured, you do an imaging study, that joint is still a mess, right?

So cells have to be treated for long periods of time, understanding the cycles of regeneration of the different tissues of the body. Understanding the depth of the pathology, the depth of the breakdown or the problem, or how far you are away from homeostasis. So then you have to apply the magnetic field in the right dose, for the right amount of time, and repeat it over and over again until that tissue has basically restored itself.

[00:35:10.28] Scott: And is there an aspect of PEMF therapy that part of why it's working is because it's helping to support the mitochondria in the production of ATP, the energy currency of the body, that it also potentially can help with oxygen and nutrient delivery. Is that something that PEMF is supporting as well?

[00:35:31.17] Dr. Pawluk: At the very least, again, there's over 25 different mechanisms. So one of the ones I discovered recently is inflammation. I would say that inflammation is actually probably one of the most important factors relative to aging. Now all of us have inflammation on a regular basis, and we need acute inflammation to heal ourselves, but we don't need chronic inflammation. We want to turn off the chronic inflammation.

So production of ATP, that's certainly one of the mechanisms, but it's not just about production of ATP, it's about inducing charge in the tissue. Increasing the electrical potentials of the tissues for processes to work, even maintaining body energy. PEMFs increase ATP, but how much ATP does your body produce on a daily basis? We produce our body weight in ATP every day.

But it recycles every 10 or 20 seconds or even faster. So it's constantly recycling. We cycle, each ATP molecule in the body, recycles about 200 to 300 times a day. So saying that magnetic fields stimulate ATP is important because you're going to give it something, a head start. But if it's breaking down that often, then how often should you be doing magnetic field therapy?

[00:36:38.20] Scott: Pretty frequently.

[00:36:39.27] Dr. Pawluk: Continuously, right? Which is not what happens. One of the FDA approved devices for magnetic fields is for bone healing, fractures. Fractures that don't heal themselves are called non-unions. The original device that was approved for that by the FDA, they were treating over a fracture site. Let's say the fracture is here; they were treating over that site 12 hours a day. All right, so there are people who say, well, all you need is eight minutes. Well, you need eight minutes for what? What's going to happen in eight minutes?

Are you going to take eight minutes to move that rock up a hill? Maybe if you're superman. The reality is that you need to know what you're treating; you need to understand the magnetic field you're using. You need to understand the physiologic processes that are being supported as you use that magnetic field. So all those things that you mentioned stimulating RNA and DNA, which means that you're increasing wound healing. Stimulating stem cells, PEMFs increase stem cell production. But you can't grow a garden in a swamp. So all these people are getting stem cell therapy, but they do nothing to clear the swamp.

[00:37:40.13] Scott: Right, totally agree with that.

[00:37:42.17] Dr. Pawluk: Right? Spending four thousand, seven thousand, twelve thousand dollars when you're trying to grow a garden in a swamp. So if you're doing magnetic field therapy, it not only helps you to clear the swamp, it helps to stimulate the nutrients that are needed to provide the sustenance of those stem cells, helps them to turn into the tissue that you want them to turn into. And when they do, you continue to support them for the life of that cell.

[00:38:06.29] Scott: Another common question that I get when we're talking about PEMF and frequency is how PEMF devices are different from rife instruments. Which many people listening chronic Lyme disease, chronic infections, and so on.

It's something that they potentially explore. It's something that I've explored in my own journey, didn't particularly find at the top of my list in terms of things that were helpful. But can you separate those for us PEMF as compared to a rife instrument?

[00:38:34.22] Dr. Pawluk: So that goes down to basics; about frequency, waveform, and magnetic field intensity. Most of the science today has proven, has established pretty well that the most important action of magnetic field therapy is to increase charge in the tissue. Now when you apply a magnetic field to the body, it's interacting with the ions in the body to create actual electrical charge of the tissue.

And the electrical charge then provides the energy to stimulate the ATP, to improve the circulation to open blood vessels, to do all the work that magnetic fields do. So one thing that it does increasing charge has this cascade of events through all the other things that it does, so the charge is the most important. Frequency is somewhat important, but it's the charge that's important. Now how often do you have to bring that charge into the body? That will vary significantly from the tissue, from the damage, but what has to happen. Now in my book, I have over 500 references, and the book is “Power Tools for Health”. There's over 500 references documenting the effects of PEMFs, both in terms of actions and in terms of specific diseases that have been studied.

So I don't do rife. I have a rife machine. I spent four thousand dollars for a good rife machine or more, actually. I have the books I read about it. I'm intrigued. All energy medicine intrigues me. Where it fails for me is I don't see the references, I don't see the science. So a lot of the rife, even Rife himself, used how many frequencies?

[00:40:11.12] Scott: I don't know the exact number, but for his work, I believe it was a fairly small number as compared to what people explore today.

[00:40:18.29] Dr. Pawluk: Right. But the exploration that you're seeing today is whisper down the line. I had this experience, individual case reports. I had this experience with this frequency. But if they tried another person with the same problem, did they get the same result? So that is the good news and the bad news about science. But the good news about science is that replicate it, do it over and over and over again, and then basically, you find all the different parameters of how well it works for a given problem.

So right now, most of the frequencies, for me, the problem that I find is that most of the frequencies tend to be unproven, they're a case report. So what happens then is that it's not reliable. The second aspect of it is it's a principle of engineering, it's also a principle of physics. If charge is the most important thing, how rapidly does that magnetic field rise to its peak? So you get the amount of time that it takes to do that and how high it gets.

So you need the peak, and you need the time. If you increase the frequency of the magnetic field. Let's say you need to go from here to here to get the maximum magnetic field and let's say that takes a second. Well, let's say it takes three seconds or five seconds, then you could divide that line into fifths, let's say five seconds. So five seconds, we can do the math on this in terms of frequencies. But if you decide to go faster and you modulate it enough that basically, it doesn't go all the way up, doesn't take five seconds. Let's say it jumps off the line at four seconds. Is it going to reach the peak?

Because it needs to go from here to here, it's going to take five seconds, so it doesn't reach the peak. If you increase that frequency even more, all the way down to here, then you're going to have an extremely low magnetic field. When you needed this much to do the job, now you're only getting this much. So the power behind the right frequencies becomes a very important determinant. If somebody says that their magnetic device produces, let's say, a hundred goals, but they don't tell you what frequency that was measured at.

So I'm going to say most likely they measured it at the lowest frequency, which is going to give them the highest intensity. So let's say that frequency was 3 hertz or 5 hertz. So now they say for rife purposes, let's use a 250 hertz or 900 hertz or 750 hertz. Well, again, you've got off the line a lot faster.

So the magnetic field intensity drops significantly, so you're not getting the same amount of power to do the job in the tissue. And if charge is the most important factor, and again you don't have enough charge. So that's another problem that I have with rife largely.

[00:42:57.23] Scott: Is the term charge that you're using, is that similar to Jerry Tennant's term “cellular voltage”? Are we talking about the same thing?

[00:43:01.17] Dr. Pawluk: Yes.

[00:43:08.00] Scott: Okay, we're talking about the same thing. So let's dig a little more then into gauss, which you just mentioned. I want to understand a little more how important is the gauss of a device. Is more always better? A lot of things we do in the Lyme and mold arena sometimes people do too much, sometimes something a little more subtle.

I often say sometimes the body needs a nudge rather than a kick to the face. And so I'm interested in how important is gauss, and then I'd also like you to talk a little bit about the concept of waveform. So we hear about saw tooth and square and so on. How important is the gauss and the waveform when we're talking about PEMF therapy?

[00:43:44.21] Dr. Pawluk: I have a blog on my website about adenosine. So adenosine is a molecule that has been discovered to help with inflammation. And PEMFs have been shown to stimulate the adenosine receptor. So the adenosine receptor takes the adenosine, puts it through the receptor, and then the receptor does the jobs in the tissue that need to be done.

15 gauss has been determined to be the optimal intensity, never mind frequency; it's 15 gauss. Actually, the frequencies that were used in those studies were anywhere between about 10 to 75 hertz. So they varied; it wasn't just one frequency. But nevertheless, they discovered that 15 goes 1.5 milli tesla is the optimal, and the curve goes like this. So at about 15 goes, it flattens out, the benefit flattens out.

[00:44:28.02] Scott: That's relatively low, correct? In the instrument world. 15 gauss, is that considered high or low?

[00:44:36.24] Dr. Pawluk: Well, there are tons of systems that are being sold to people that are less than that. They're not even a gauss.

[00:44:44.06] Scott: Okay.

[00:44:45.11] Dr. Pawluk: All right, but that is relatively low. So I have magnetic therapy devices that go up to seven thousand gauss, right? But there's a chart on that blog that tells you the magnetic field intensity you need in the tissue to give you 15 gauss. So what happens is a magnetic field drops off very rapidly, it starts off here, and the farther you move away from it, magnetic field drops off logarithmically, exponentially.

So, for example, I have a chart here that's in the book or in that blog rather. If you start off with 1800 gauss, four inches into the body, that eighteen hundred gauss will go to fifteen, all right. If you start off at two hundred gauss to deliver fifteen gauss where you're trying to treat, especially for inflammation. It's going to go down to 15 gauss in about an inch, right? So it's very shallow in terms of if it acting. So 200 gauss here, and by time it gets here, it's 15.

So you have to calculate the intensity that you need for the tissue that you're trying to treat. You're trying to treat through the whole brain, you're going to go from the front of the brain to the back of the brain. Then you have to know that distance, and then you have to calculate the magnetic field intensity you need to start with to get to where you're trying to go, okay. So that's critical. If you do just on the basis of the 15 gauss based on the research study.

So I'm not guessing about this, it's based on research. Then you're going to have to make that calculation or get a table like I have, to tell you what you what you're going to need. When I do consultations with people, and I do lots of consultations, we talk about this. What are the problems? You're trying to treat headaches or Parkinson's or MS or encephalitis, brain fog. Then you're going to have to do that kind of calculation.

If you're trying to treat Crohn's disease, ulcerative colitis, a lot of inflammation in the belly, then you're going to need to calculate what the distance is going to be to deal with inflammation through that whole volume. Fortunately, when you reach the peak, when you reach that plateau, it's lost energy. It doesn't hurt you, but you don't need that much energy. So if you try to treat a shoulder, you don't need a 2,000 gauss magnetic field or a 4,000 gauss magnetic field.

But if that's all you're treating. Or an elbow or a carpal tunnel, you can use a very low-level magnetic field. But if you're trying to treat deeper, you need clearly more, more intensity. So then the waveform, the job of the waveform, is basically to deliver that energy. And it's the upstroke of the wave where all the work happens. If a wave goes up and stops goes across, nothing is happening here. It's wasted time and energy. Now on the way down, because it's reversing direction, there is some level of benefit.

Not as much as on the upslope, but there is on the downslope. So the waveform, I don't care what the waveform is. This is called dB/dt, the amount of time it takes for it to rise, so the time that it takes to rise and the peak. That's called the change in intensity divided by the change in time. So the dB/dt is really the key element. Well, I don't care what wave you use.

So the people will say you need this waveform or that waveform of that form, no, that's not the issue. That's not the answer, that's not the question. The question is, what is the dB/dt, what is the energy? And we don't normally get dB/dt, sometimes we can do those calculations what we have to do, and we mostly go off the peak intensity of the magnetic field.

[00:48:17.08] Scott: One of the things that was interesting in reading some of your material to prepare for this was the calcium, sodium, potassium, magnesium, and the potential benefits associated. And I wondered if supplemental electrolytes can that synergize PEMF therapy to make it more effective.

[00:48:34.21] Dr. Pawluk: So calcium is a good question, the short answer question is absolutely, but only if you're deficient. You can take calcium, but the body says when I go up to this level. If I exceed that level, I'm going to pee it out, right? I'm going to get rid of it because I don't need that much. So there's a lot of things in the body that are like that.

That if you're deficient, if you're starting low, you need this much, but you're starting down here, then you need to make yourself sufficient, but that's all you need to do. Taking more won't make you better. So having two glasses of water when you really only need one is just going to make you pee more, right? So basically, the answer to the question is yes, you need it.

But you only need it to a point. And the same thing applies to nutrition; if you don't have the protein, you can't repair molecules. So you don't have the carbs, you're not going to keep the energy levels going in the cells and maintain body temperature.

You need to maintain body temperature for all the metabolic processes of the body to be functioning optimally because we need that 98.6 approximately. Temperature in our core to do most of the metabolic work of the body. So if you don't have those, then the magnetic fields are not going to be able to work quite as effectively.

[00:49:43.10] Scott: I want to talk a little bit about people that are dealing with chronic fatigue, where maybe they don't have an adequate production of ATP from the mitochondria. I know in some people when we look at this concept of the Cell Danger Response from Bob Naviaux’s work at UCSD.

That sometimes coming in and really aggressively supporting the mitochondria with supplementation and things like that can backfire because the extracellular ATP is actually the danger signal in that cell danger response state or hypometabolic state.

And so what I'm interested in, when we're using PEMF to potentially support mitochondria and ATP, do we have to be concerned about that same potential for supporting the mitochondria, creating more ATP that then further reinforces that cell danger response?

[00:49:36.16] Dr. Pawluk: Well, the beauty of magnetic field therapy is that the body tends to ignore what it doesn't need. Healthy cells ignore the magnetic field. So the magnetic field says, oh, that was interesting and goes back about its business.

The body tends to respond or use or need the magnetic fields for where there are deficiencies, where there's a lack of homeostasis. It needs that extra charge, so we'll tend to use it. Once the cell gets to homeostasis, it doesn't need anymore; it shrugs it off. So you can't exceed the body's capacity to do it. If you need to make more ATP, and you give the body the stimulus for magnetic field therapy to make ATP.

But if you don't have enough adenosine, if you don't have enough sucrose, if you don't have enough ribose in your tissues, then you're not going to make enough ATP. No matter how hard I push that process. So all of these things are kind of working together, and you can't expect anyone thing, just giving you, loading with ribose is going to fix the problem. Again, it's going to reach saturation, and after that, you need to do the stimulation to get it to go to the next level.

[00:51:34.19] Scott: So what I'm hearing is we do not observe a backfiring using PEMF like we might with direct mitochondrial support when the body's not ready for it.

[00:51:45.21] Dr. Pawluk: Where you see problems the most, and I do warn people about this all the time. I have a concept called going low and slow, never mind the people with hypersensitivities: multiple chemical sensitivities, chronic fatigue, you name it, people who have sensitivities in general. Because they're so inflamed and they have so much irritability going on in their body, that you're pushing them too fast, too hard.

You're gradually building the body's capacity to take that stimulation. Another metaphor that I use is athletic training. Essentially with magnetic therapy, you're doing athletic training in the body. You don't get off the couch and run a marathon the next day, right? So with magnetic fields, you're pushing the tissues, you're stimulating the tissues, you're pushing them to do more up to their capacity, again homeostasis. And then you find out how the body reacts. If your body says ouch, then it's too much, too fast. Then you back off the intensity, you back off the time.

You keep doing that to let the body equilibrate at that level, and then you try it again, like athletic training. You do 20 reps one day, the next day you do 25, the next day you do 30. Well, if you did 30, but now you started really hurting, then you got to go back to 25. And you may want to do 25 for another few days before you go back to 30 again and so on and so on.

So you get the 30, then you want to go to 35. And you may have the same reaction. So you're going to gradually build up your stamina, you're going to gradually build up the functionality of the tissues of the body. Until finally, you get to, let's say, the maximum time and maximum intensity, then you know you've arrived.

[00:53:23.14] Scott: In conditions like Lyme disease, there is often hypercoagulation. I know personally one of the challenges I had recovering from Lyme disease was Babesia, and Babesia triggering hypercoagulation, excess thrombin, fibrin those types of things which then impact oxygen and nutrient delivery. Is there a role of pulsed electromagnetic field therapy in terms of helping to counter or address hypercoagulation?

[00:53:49.22] Dr. Pawluk: Absolutely. One of the earlier studies that was done in Russia, they discovered this that PEMFs have both a platelet adhesion, a reduction capability. So they decrease the stickiness of platelets or what we call rouleau formation or blood cells rouleau. In addition to that, they have a fibrinolytic function. So magnetic field therapy has an equal level of function to aspirin or most other platelet inhibitors.

They inhibit the ability of platelets to clot, to clump. So it has that action, but at the same time, as you're using magnetic fields on a regular basis, it has a fibrinolytic action. Now, if you happen to have a big thick clot sitting there, and you hadn't been using magnetic field therapy, can you start using magnetic therapy to break down that clot, probably. But it's not going to happen overnight. Unless you're using enzymes to break down the clots, where you specifically have the enzymes break down the fibrin that breaks down the clot.

The reverse is true, too, that if you're on anticoagulation and you're doing magnetic field therapy. I've seen this many times, increased bruising happens. You're more likely to have a problem with bleeding. So again, it's a seesaw. You have to be careful, you're already on anticoagulation, you have to be really careful with magnetic therapy. It doesn't mean you shouldn't use it, but you have to watch out for bruising.

[00:55:04.15] Scott: Because you may need less of the enzyme therapy as you introduce the PEMF?

[00:55:09.11] Dr. Pawluk: Or the anti-clotting therapy or less of the enzyme therapy, exactly.

[00:55:12.11] Scott: Let's talk a little bit about the impact of PEMF on the immune system. So looking at microbial overgrowths in the body or microbial burden in conditions like Lyme disease and chronic fatigue and so on. Can PEMFs have the ability to support the immune system so that over time, the body can itself reduce that chronic microbial burden? When we're thinking about Lyme disease, for example, is that something that PEMF therapy will help with longer-term?

[00:55:43.19] Dr. Pawluk: So I think in Lyme disease, PEMFs have a lot of different actions and many roles. It's not just a one-horse shape, it's not just a one-trick pony. So in terms of coagulability, that's an important part of this. In terms of helping to dampen the immune response that's become chronic as opposed to acute. PEMFs have been shown to decrease pro-inflammatory cytokines, and it doesn't matter whether it's Babesia or Lyme disease.

Even if you have a lot of visceral adiposity, you're producing a ton of cytokines, pro-inflammatory cytokines. So somebody who's got a lot of visceral obesity, if they're using magnetic field therapy sufficiently strong enough, they're going to decrease the amount of cytokine production in their belly by their fat.

So it doesn't matter what the condition is; they just have this natural anti-inflammatory action. So what it's doing then basically is it's balancing the immune system, you're especially dampening the pro-inflammatory component of it. And that allows the anti-inflammatory component to do its job better because it doesn't have much fighting to do, do all sorts of other things that help with the healing processes too.

[00:56:48.00] Scott: So is it fair then to say that PEMF could be an indirect anti-microbial strategy through it's ability to modulate the immune response, that the immune system then can better manage these chronic infectious states?

[00:57:03.21] Dr. Pawluk: Yes, absolutely. In my book, again in the “Power Tools” book, I do talk about infections. And there are limited studies that show that magnetic fields actually decrease or they kill bugs themselves. There is some evidence, but not a lot of evidence.

And I can't say this across the entire microbial spectrum, but there are some of that action going on. They help, but mostly they help the macrophages, and they help the anti-inflammatory cells to do their jobs better. And if you take natural anti-infectives or antibacterial agents, combined with magnetic field therapy, the combination works even better than either one alone.

[00:57:40.10] Scott: So you mentioned that PEMFs can dampen the pro-inflammatory side of the immune response. Does that mean that if we have, let's say, an autoimmune, hyper-reactive system, or even we talked about Mast Cell Activation Syndrome, histamine intolerance? Is that dampening of the immune system helping to reduce autoimmune tendencies and mast cell activation potentially?

[00:58:02.20] Dr. Pawluk: Well again, mast cell activation does not happen in a vacuum. It's usually happening in a hyperinflammatory environment. Because those mast cells are just, those cells are more activated already to release mast cells. So, in general, but probably the most important aspect again goes back to inflammation. If you could decrease the inflammation, then you decrease the production of mast cells.

You decrease the easy release of cytokines and histamines and so on. But going low and slow, so you can't sort of jump in the deep end of the pool with magnetic field therapy and expect it to all of a sudden work. You're much more likely to have a very significant aggravation response or even a Herxing response when you do that. In those situations where there's a lot of inflammation, a lot of mast cell activation, a lot of irritability, then you really have to go low and slow. Those tissues have to gradually build themselves back up again and receive homeostasis.

So the faster I push it, the harder I push it, you're going to react. And we don't want you to react, you're going to stop doing magnetic field therapy. But if you gradually allow the tissues to condition themselves, then you start the repair work without getting a significant aggravation. You probably have to experience a little bit of aggravation, but you don't want to go over the top.

[00:59:15.11] Scott: I want to talk a little bit about hypermobility, structural integrity, collagen. If we think about things like Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome, maybe taking it into bone loss, osteopenia, osteoporosis. How might PEMF help us from a structural integrity perspective over time?

[00:59:34.18] Dr. Pawluk: Well, there is certainly again, there's information in the book about GAGs and collagen, and fibroblasts and the fact you can take mesenchymal cells, mesenchymal fat cells. Even fat cells, convert them into concurrent stem cells in fat, into fibroblasts. They can convert into other tissue building cells.

[00:59:58.26] Scott: So we're talking here about supporting the extracellular matrix essentially?

[01:00:02.29] Dr. Pawluk: Correct. So collagen production is one of the key elements of PEMF therapy is that they increase collagen production. But there's a whole, again, all the gang is turned on, it's not just one element. You cannot dial a magnetic field to turn on one thing. If that's what you're looking for, you're not going to get it.

All the different 25 actions that I mentioned at magnetic fields, and I just recently discovered that actually they also turned on the endocannabinoid system. So that's a relatively recent discovery in medicine. Magnetic fields have been around for 75 years or so. Well, did we know about endocannabinoids 50 years ago, right? But we're now discovering that actually, they affect the endocannabinoid system too. So all these actions are happening at the same time. The body decides what it's going to do with the stimulus, right? If you give it enough push, you know, stimulate it enough over a long enough period of time, all these processes will be done by the body in the ratios and proportions and timelines that the body wants or can invoke or use.

We know, for example, wounds will heal in half the time, that's increasing collagen. GAGs, fibroblasts, growing new cells, bringing in the stem cells all that's happening, but again you don't heal this overnight. You can take a fracture, and you might be able to heal the fracture at half the time. You can take a wound, and you might be able to heal it in half the time. But it's still going to take all the building, all the molecules, and elements that you need to rebuild the tissue.

[01:01:35.26] Scott: Have you worked with anyone with Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome that saw benefits from PEMF?

[01:01:41.22] Dr. Pawluk: I have. So in my mind, the first stage of helping somebody with EDS is to help them with their pain, is to help them with the amount of inflammation that's caused in their bodies because the joints are too liberal, they're moving too much.

So it takes years for somebody with EDS to notice a significant difference in terms of their joint mobility. Because how do you repair a joint it's hypermobile? You have to tighten it. So what's the fastest way to tighten a joint?

[01:02:09.20] Scott: If it was a ligament or tendon, I would say prolotherapy, but.

[01:02:13.11] Dr. Pawluk: Exactly. All right, that's causing inflammation, causing irritation to create scarring that tightens up a joint. In the long run, that's not a good thing, right? In the long run, the best thing to do is have the body rebuild itself to tighten those joints and ligaments. But then you're fighting the genetics that's caused the problem in the first place. So it depends on the momentum of the genetics and how rapidly those joints are breaking down.

The problem with EDS is that we don't get it these people early enough. If we got at their problem when they were children, very young in the first year or two years of life. They would be able to do a lot more, a lot quicker. But if they're an adult, your age, my age, that at this point to try to reverse all that that's been going on for 50 years or 60 years or even 30 years, it's not going to happen overnight.

[01:03:04.15] Scott: Yes. I mean, interestingly, what I see with Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome is some people do have that more primary genetic variant of it. And then there are people that they get Bartonella, for example, that triggers the EDS.

And I have seen people that when they treat the underlying infectious trigger, that may be epigenetically then accelerated their genetic expression, that they can reverse the condition when they start focusing on the microbial piece as well. And so it sounds like maybe this could be a good adjunct therapy to help support the rebuilding of those structures as well.

[01:03:38.06] Dr. Pawluk: It's giving the body a fighting chance, is what it's doing. You still need all the nutrients; you still need to affect the genetics. All these other cofactors have to be dealt with at the same time; you can't just rely on magnetic field therapy to help.

[01:03:51.24] Scott: We know that in many chronic illnesses, that there is a terrain aspect of these conditions. You mentioned heavy metals and pesticides, and so on. So can we think of PEMF therapy as a detoxification modality? Does it help support the body and getting rid of these environmental toxins?

[01:04:10.04] Dr. Pawluk: One of the very earliest things I learned about pulse magnetic fields, and I saw some experiments done in Germany with that. Is that PEMFs help open up membrane channels. And it depends on the scientists and the membrane channels they're studying, but nobody's studying all the channels at one time. Essentially, the concept is that magnetic field therapy is throwing open the doors and the windows.

Nutrients get in better, and waste gets out better. So yes, we see Herxing, we see aggravation responses. Some of that's related to inflammation, but some of that certainly could be due to the release of embedded materials. But if somebody's locked into a cell and locked into a cellular structure, it's hard to get that out. If it's sitting loosely inside the cell fluid, interstitial fluid, or intracellular fluid, and you open up the membrane channels, it's more likely to get out. Obviously, if it's a gas, it's more likely to get out. So again, these processes take time. So there is that risk, there is that benefit. Now, if you're in the brain, what happens when you start to release things?

They just move from one place to another. We can't direct them to go where we want them to go because we don't know exactly what they are, where they are, and how much you have to get rid of. So I always recommend if we're doing detox work, you have to be doing chelation; you have to be doing other things to mop up all those molecules. And for that purpose, I use zeolite.

[01:05:34.08] Scott: Yes. And it's interesting you mentioned the brain; I mean, one of the things that I've heard Dr. Dietrich Klinghardt talk about is that it is difficult oftentimes to get at the toxins that are stored in the brain because of the blood-brain barrier. And that that is an area where the application of physics-based solutions are necessary.

[01:05:52.20] Dr. Pawluk: And PEMFs do affect the blood-brain barrier; they generally tend to open it up a bit. But again, you need to talk about the right intensity of the magnetic field to be able to do that. So if you take a ten gauss magnetic field or 200 gauss magnetic field, it's not going deep enough into the brain to across the brain. Basically, do a blood-brain barrier like opening it. So you have to match the field, the time, and everything else you're doing.

[01:06:21.05] Scott: Many people today are in a sympathetic dominant state, where the nervous system can really never relax enough to rest, digest, detoxify. We look at things like autonomic nervous system imbalances or dysautonomias, things like POTS or Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome. Is there a calming aspect of PEMF on the nervous system?

[01:06:44.11] Dr. Pawluk: What's the cause of POTS?

[01:06:46.16] Scott: Well, it depends. I mean, Bartonella can be one; adrenal insufficiency can be another. Autonomic nervous system issues can be another. I mean, I think there could be several.

[01:06:56.08] Dr. Pawluk: It could be stroke; it could be vascular disease. But most of the time, I think that the dysautonomia is caused by infection. And the most common infection is EBV, all right? So EBV attacks the ganglia of the body. The ganglia or the sympathetic, parasympathetic they control that balance. So if the ganglia are infected or inflamed, then you're going to get that hyperreactivity in either direction.

It could be too much parasympathetic drive; it could be too much sympathetic drive. In other words, you don't have a balance, that's why we call it dysautonomia. So PEMFs help basically again, going back to inflammation, help to basically try to get the cells back into some level of homeostasis.

It's not a fix for the problem, but again if you're dealing with all the other parameters around that problem, then you should see gradually over time an improvement in those symptoms, going low and slow again because you're kind of pushing that system. The nervous system with the magnetic fields and you have to do that gradually.

[01:07:58.15] Scott: In some of your writings, you've said that certain frequencies can increase tinnitus. If we're looking at people that already have tinnitus, is PEMF therapy problematic? Or can certain frequencies also decrease the tinnitus?

[01:08:13.17] Dr. Pawluk: So then we go back to cause. So I always go back to cause; I always try to understand the pathophysiology of a problem. If I don't understand the pathophysiology, then I don't know exactly how to advise. Dosing, the intensity of the magnetic field, and so on. So tinnitus, a lot of the research that's been done on tinnitus has been done using high-intensity PEMFs, RTMS, repetitive transcranial magnetic stimulation.

It's a very high-intensity PEMFs aimed at the brain, and that research is ongoing. And it's showing benefit, but you're not talking about a hundred percent, zero percent. From a statistical perspective, all you need to do is to show that it's less than chance. Is that 10% benefit, 20% benefit, because again there are different causes and reasons for tinnitus. Most of the time, it's not the ears. You can rule that out pretty easily, and the ears themselves are the easiest part to treat.

Then the question is it bilateral or unilateral? And one study I read actually showed that it didn't matter which side you treat it, even if it's unilateral. So some frequencies can aggravate tinnitus, some intensities can aggravate tinnitus. PEMFs, as I said, can aggravate anything. If you're too much, too fast, then you've got to back off and go gradually. One theory of tinnitus is that it's more common if people have hearing loss, right? Most of it is coming from the auditory cortex.

And when you start to have hearing loss, you don't have enough feedback in the auditory cortex. And nature abhors a vacuum. So what happens? Is the cell stop-start talking to each other, and that's essentially what tinnitus is, right? So if you want to heal it, you try to heal the hearing. Is one of the key aspects of it.

And then otherwise, you're trying to stimulate circulation increase, circulation into the brain. Decrease whatever inflammation there may be going on in that parietal cortex, whatever noxious factors have contributed to it. Tinnitus is very common in people who have hearing losses. It's like 70 to 80% of people who have tinnitus have hearing loss. 

[01:10:10.18] Scott: I want to talk a little bit about sleep. That is such a common issue that people struggle with. You've talked about the FlexPulse, and we'll get into talking about some of the devices that you use. I know you also talk about the Earth Pulse.

How are these devices potentially helpful for sleep, and then how often do you find in those that really have difficult sleep challenges. How often do you find that they help them get deeper, more health, restorative sleep?

[01:10:34.10] Dr. Pawluk: So sleep issues, you still have to do hygiene. You cannot ignore hygiene, and that's the fundamental. So you always have to start with improving the hygiene, making sure the hygiene is correct and in place. Dousing the lights, not having a cell phone at your bedside. Certainly not on. If you have it at your bedside, put it on airplane mode. Turn off your routers, all the sleep hygiene things that you need to be doing.

After that, sleep is basically a set of oscillation patterns in the brain, frequency patterns within the brain, right? We know that the brain goes through a series of cycles throughout the night. So we normally start off in theta, which is I call it light sleep. So your head hits the pillow, we drop down into theta. We drop down fairly low into theta because it's lights out. Then about an hour, an hour and a half into theta, we move into something called delta, which is called slow-wave sleep. It's considered to be the most restorative sleep that we have. So that happens usually within the first three hours of sleep. And then you come out of delta, and you're basically bouncing around in theta for the rest of the night.

So we have all the different forms of theta are rem and non-rem. So the first phase of theta when you first fall asleep is non-REM. Delta is considered non-rem sleep as well. Non-rapid eye movement sleep, but it's not theta, it's delta. So dreaming is REM sleep. So we bounce around between, and there are phases of REM throughout the night, and then the phases of non-REM throughout the night. We spent probably 70 to 80% of our night time in theta.

When we're aware that we're not sleeping, then you're out of theta, you're bounced up into alpha. If you're dreaming and you're aware that you're dreaming, that's REM sleep. But you're in high REM or high theta, which means that you're aware, right? Once you become aware, say you're not quite awake, but you know you're not sleeping deeply, you're not unaware, you're not unconscious, then you're going to be in high theta. I used to use audiovisual entrainment techniques; I used to use all sorts of techniques to keep the brain at the levels we wanted the brain to be.

The problem is doing things during the night, people are bothered in different ways by different appliances that are put on their heads, where they have earphones, where they have goggles. People don't keep these things off. Also, I've discovered over the years, audio visual entrainment using specific frequencies, and they're trying to guess like this is one of the problems that I have with the earth pulse. Is you design so you're going to go down, and then you're going to bounce around at a lower level, and then you're going to gradually come up.

So you're trying to basically tell the brain to do something. My brain wants to be awake, and I want to put it to sleep, then I'm going to resist falling asleep, right? If I want to be asleep, but I'm awake. I'm not going to be able to stay awake very easily. My brain wants to be awake or asleep rather than awake. So we kind of battling against the tendencies of the brain towards what we think the brain should be doing at that moment in time. So artificially, synthetically trying to ramp down what I call ramping, ramp down stable, and then wrap back up again is artificial.

So what I've learned over the years is it's better to give the brain one frequency, and the brain will do whatever it wants. But if I give one frequency, the brain is going to be listening to that one frequency more likely than it will to a whole jumble of frequencies. And how long do I have to give a frequency to the brain before it says I hear you. If I change the frequency too soon before it's actually heard it, then there's not going to be any benefit to that frequency, right? So what I recommend is that people use delta. And they put it under their pillow, or on top of their pillow. Not under the mattress. You need a strong enough magnetic field to capture the brain. So if you're listening to somebody whispering, you're going to really pay attention to their listening, to listen to them.

If they're having a conversation like we are right now with relatively audible, then you're going to hear it for sure. But if I'm yelling at you, you can't ignore it, right? But you don't want to be doing that because that's disruptive, so that's a jangling to the nerves. So essentially, what you want to do is to present enough of an intensity over enough of a period of time, where it's going to listen, the brain is going to listen.

So you start in delta, the brain's going to drop down into theta, and go down into delta probably faster than it would normally. And it's going to stay in delta longer because that's the most restorative sleep. Hooray, we're happy for that, right? Then we start to come back up into theta naturally, then you're basically wearing a weight around your waist. Your brain is trying to keep, have you be relatively awake and aware. So what we're doing is we're dropping you down below the surface.

You're going to swim the rest of the way below the surface, so I call that tethering. You're basically tethering theta. So you're keeping the level of theta down in the brain, so you're able to sleep better, longer. One frequency, delta. Now which part of the brain controls sleep and awareness the most, right there, back of the neck, top of the neck. It's called the reticular activating system. So ideally, you'd want to put the coil there, it's close to the ears.

And so some people would find that disruptive, and so I've coined a new term called audio magnetic entrainment as opposed to audio visual entrainment. So you're hearing the clicking from the magnetic field and the coil, now that becomes a pacer for you as well.

So now you have two signals. You have the magnetic field going in the body, which you can't hear, but you can hear the clicking. So now you have another way of tuning your brain. So you have to translate for yourself and say clicking is good, clicking is my friend. Clicking is telling me that it works.

[01:16:16.03] Scott: Are there any contraindications for PEMF therapy that people should know about? If you're pregnant, nursing have dental implants, maybe titanium screws or pacemakers. Do we need to worry about PEMF erasing credit cards or hurting the cell phone? Talk to us about some of the contra-indications?

[01:16:34.07] Dr. Pawluk: All right. Pregnancy is always stated as a contraindication, and I would consider that a relative contraindication. And the government does that with drugs as well. Unless you've done studies to prove that it's safe in pregnancy, you can't stay safe in pregnancy. So, therefore, if you can't say it's safe in pregnancy, you have to say it's contraindication, don't use it during pregnancy.

However, we know women who work in MRI units who are pregnant, who get pregnant and are pregnant, and continue to work in those environments. And there have been no significant reports of major issues, occupational health issues. I know many women who get pregnant, they've been using magnetic fields already, they get pregnant.

They breeze through their pregnancies with magnetic field therapy. So we can't tell you for sure that it's safe even if you, even all the studies in the world may not tell you that it's sure to be safe, because random things happen in pregnancy anyway. So pregnancy is a relative contraindication. The only other absolute contraindication in my mind is organ transplants. If you're on immune suppression. Because you're on immune suppression for a reason, you don't want to reject that organ.

So we don't know how the magnetic field is going to affect the immune system relative to you. We don't want to be stimulating clearly, and we don't know for sure that it's going to work with the immunosuppression to keep your organ safe. So I recommend against it during transplant. There's no evidence, there's no studies because people haven't done that, most people have stayed away from magnetic their magnetic therapy during transplant.

Metal, metal is a very important discussion. But most of the time, metal is safe. Unless you get to very high intensities. I happen to have some dental implants before I got some wisdom, and when I bring a high intestine magnetic field close to my head, close to the implants, I get these sharp jabbing stabs. I don't know if you've ever touched a spoon to a filling or anybody listening has, it's a shock, it's like electrical shock. Well, that's what you get across the implants for several reasons.

One is that the material of the implant material is not your own natural teeth; fillings are not your own natural teeth. Other kinds of composites in your mouth are not your natural teeth. So all of these create electrolysis, all of these create electrical charge differentials.

[01:18:57.17] Scott: Similar to electrogalvanism?

[01:18:59.11] Dr. Pawluk: It's electrogalvanism. So if you wear a copper bracelet, people say that it works. Well, what's it doing? It's creating, in a sense, a piezoelectric field. A very tiny electric field, because of the interaction of the copper with the sweat, with the perspiration under it. And that sends a signal up the nervous system, which makes you feel better, that's another form of galvanism. So magnetic fields will create some of that galvanism, and if it's around a nerve, it may be. If it's too much of a field, that nerve is going to tell you ouch.

Now ideally, you should be using the magnetic field around that nerve because that nerve is telling you that it's in trouble. Magnetic field therapy doesn't normally cause problems; it usually reveals problems. So if that's happening, then clearly, that area needs some work. With joint replacement, everybody who has a joint replacement should have a magnetic field; they should be using it every day. Why? Because these joint replacements are metal, even if it's titanium.

Titanium is still not completely inert in the body, it's still a foreign material in the body. MRIs have shown that people who have these implants like hip replacements or even knee replacement, they show inflammation around the implant, okay. That's why implants tend to have a lifespan because the tissues are breaking down because of the foreign material.

[01:20:13.03] Scott: And biofilm formation as well, I understand.

[01:20:15.26] Dr. Pawluk: And the biofilms, that PEMFs have been actually shown to help with biofilm, just like they help with other infections. So magnetic field therapy causes osteointegration.

So anybody with metal in their body is going to have inflammation, and you want to decrease the inflammation. And you want to help the bones to knit with the titan, with the prosthesis. And that's called osteointegration, and magnetic field therapy improves osteointegration.

[01:20:38.13] Scott: And when we're talking about the dental implants, is that an issue with zirconium implants as well? Or only titanium implants?

[01:20:45.28] Dr. Pawluk: Well, zirconium is not metal, but it's a foreign body.

[01:20:49.09] Scott: But in terms of the potential issues with PEMF, we wouldn't expect that with zirconium?

[01:20:53.06] Dr. Pawluk: No, not at all, even less, though.

[01:20:54.22] Scott: Yes, that's what I thought. I've heard people say that PEMF devices can erase your credit cards and mess with your cell phone.

[01:21:02.07] Dr. Pawluk: The higher intensity devices will absolutely have that potential. I was working with a laptop with a high intensive system, actually my Mac, and it was basically around my hip. And I had it on my lap, and the screen closed. When I moved it away, it was fine. I had a couple of television remotes while I was doing that treatment, blew them.

So yes, certain electronics, especially vulnerable, sensitive electronics, are going to be affected by it. The rule of thumb is keep it away at least two feet from the magnetic field, from the applicator; that's usually safe enough. So credit cards, iPhone, iWatches, tablets, pads, computers. If you're working at a desk at a PC, as long as you're a foot or two feet away from your coil, you should be normally fine.

[01:21:48.26] Scott: Beautiful.

[01:21:49.20] Dr. Pawluk: If your system is squawking at you, obviously, if you put it right next to it, you could freeze the screen. Is it likely to damage the circuitry? Unlikely, unless you lay it on top of the circuitry, it has to be like right there. So the farther away it is from the circuitry, the less of a problem it's going to be. Pacemakers, implanted electronics, same issue applies with them. Nowadays, most of the implanted electronics are what we call MR-conditional.

If you're, and people have to find this out, if your doctor says that you cannot do an MRI, then it's not MR-conditional. If it's MR-conditional, then we have no problems with the magnetic fields that we use; they're not strong enough.

An MRI gets down to maybe one and a half tesla, fifteen thousand dollars or higher. Two thousand, two tesla, three tesla, four tesla, so you're talking magnitudes, well over ten thousand dollars. Most of the PEMFs that we use for clinical use are way below that level.

[01:22:52.02] Scott: One of our listeners was referring to the book the Body Electric, and their question was, does PEMF have a pro-cancer effect potentially? Is there any concern that PEMF can promote cancer?

[01:23:04.25] Dr. Pawluk: Research is showing that PEMFs are not a cancer initiator. They're not a cancer promoter. I routinely recommend magnetic field therapy for cancer because magnetic fields have been found to actually improve the effectiveness of chemo if you go with chemo. They help the tissues to recover from radiation.

You don't want to recover the tissues that were cancerous, but you do want to recover healthy tissues from radiation. They may actually if you use them before radiation, they may actually help with radiosensitization. That may make the tissues a bit more sensitive, especially cancers, to the radiation. Absolutely help with recovery from surgery.

So at this point, we do not have evidence that PEMFs actually are cancer initiators, except for EMFs or the environmental magnetic fields, the high-frequency fields. They're more likely to because they're genetically disruptive. PEMFs are genetically supportive, are gene supportive, the ELF PEMFs.

[01:24:04.16] Scott: I know some of the devices that you talk about, the FlexPulse, the BioBalance, the TeslaFit. Can you talk to our listeners a little bit about where those might have application if someone has a shoulder problem, for example? Compared to a need for more systemic support. What devices are you recommending? And where they might fit in a particular protocol or health maintenance program?

[01:24:28.08] Dr. Pawluk: So health maintenance is one issue, and then treatment is another, so they're separate in terms of the way you have to think about them. You have to decide whether you want whole body or whether you want local. Whole body is more likely to be used for health maintenance. On the other hand, if you have osteopenia or osteoporosis, you need whole-body treatment because the whole skeleton is involved.

And you need a high enough intensity magnetic field that's going to penetrate with an adequate level of magnetic field through the whole skeleton. Inflammation is one of the most common causes of osteopenia and osteoporosis. It's hormones, but there's more to it than that. We know that people who have gluten sensitivity are more likely to have osteoporosis.

So inflammation is a big reason for osteoporosis, generic inflammation. So again, if you're obese, you're more likely to have inflammation, osteopenia, osteoporosis because you have a lot of inflammation in your body. All right, so local versus systemic, if you have problems throughout many areas of the body, you're going to generally want to have a whole body system or a bigger magnetic system. FlexPulse is a local system; it's battery operated.

It has a maximum magnetic field intensity of around 200 gauss, so again it doesn't go that deep. So we try to work with the shoulder, that's fine. If you're trying to work with the hip, it may not be strong enough for a hip. If you're trying to work with MS or Parkinson's or brain trauma, it's probably not strong enough. It can be helpful, and I actually did a study on brain trauma and concussion, using a 200 gauss magnetic field which showed some benefit.

But for three months, then after stopping it, after three months, the benefit basically regressed. So we know that it's probably not strong enough, deep. Now there's lots of research actually on high-intensity PEMFs and concussion and brain injury, TBI. And I actually wrote a review article in the Journal of Science and Medicine, JOSAM, it's called J-o-s-a-m. It's a good journal that has a lot of magnetic therapy information on it, and it's free access.

Local problems that are relatively superficial, a portable PEMF device is adequate. The Earth Pulse is a smaller gut machine, but it's not portable. You have to plug it in. So a downside of some of these machines is you have to decide whether you want something that you can put on and walk around with, or drive in your car or take on an airplane, then the FlexPulse would be more ideal for that. If you need higher intensity and you're going to treat for a short period of time, then you could use a more local device. So there are lower intensity, medium intensity, and high-intensity local systems.

For a whole body, again, if you're treating a condition like stage four cancer or osteoporosis, osteopenia, then you need the high-intensity whole body system. If you don't know what you need, go to our website, and we have a consultation form on the website; you can actually book a consultation. 

[01:27:21.27] Scott: So where does the BioBalance and the TeslaFit into that conversation that you just shared with us?

[01:27:28.08] Dr. Pawluk: Very important. I’m glad to that you asked that question. So FlexPulse is portable, battery-operated local, and that's what I use for sleep. So it's a great sleep device. Also, it's good for alertness, if you're going to be driving long distances, you can put that one coil in the back of your head at say 23 hertz, 24 hertz, 40 hertz, and it'll perk up your brain to make you alert. So it's the cup of coffee without the buzz, right?

As soon as you take it off, the brain just goes back to what it wants to be. The other devices that you talk about BioBalance is a whole-body PEMF system that's really more for health maintenance. It will run all night. And for some people, particularly people with a reasonable level of sensitivity, then putting a whole body system on your bed and running it all night can also help with sleep a lot. Rather than just totally tuning the brain with a higher intensity device.

So the FlexPulse goes up to 200 gauss or a single-coil, the BioBalance is ten gauss. But because you're distributing that energy over a larger part of the body, you're turning up a lot of cells at the same time. As opposed to a local system which is not turning on that many cells. So BioBalance again is probably more for health maintenance than anything. Then you go to the TeslaFit devices; TeslaFit has three devices. The TeslaFit+ 2, which is the base system, TeslaFit Duo and the TeslaFit Pro. TeslaFit Pro is really more for the professional setting; it's very high intensity and can cause muscle contractions. So that's again more professional, that's why it's called the pro. TeslaFit Duo is nice because you can run two applicators at the same time. So it's a duo, it's got two channels. And that allows you to treat two body parts at the same time, or you could actually treat two people at the same time, two different people. But it's going to be more expensive, and that magnetic system goes up to about 5200 gauss, strong enough to cause muscle contractions as well. That's a system that I have been recommending to chiropractors, to acupuncturists, and naturopaths.

Because the cost of that system is low enough that it's reasonable to bring into a practice. You can get return relatively quickly. It's easy to use and operate, and it still produces an obvious sensation to the person that it's working. So the TeslaFit+ 2 is really more for home use. So that I have lots of people who buy the TeslaFit Duo who are not practitioners.

Because it's stronger, it goes from four thousand gauss for the TeslaFit+ 2 to five thousand gauss for the Duo. Again, the Duo has the advantage of having two channels. The TeslaFit Plus only has one channel. None of the TeslaFit devices are whole body, you can get a half body pad, but none of them are whole body. So they're not really that useful for whole-body treatment.

Although, every time you treat part of the body, the whole body is getting benefit from that as well. The area getting treated is getting a lot more benefit than the areas that are not getting treated.

[01:30:31.07] Scott: So for the people that are listening to this, that are dealing with chronic Lyme disease, mold illness, and so on. What I’m hearing is out of the ones that you shared, probably for sleep, the FlexPulse has some application.

And then for whole body support, which sounds like maybe the most appropriate of those tools, the BioBalance. And then for practitioners that are listening, that want some application in their clinic setting, the TeslaFit might be the place to explore.

[01:31:00.10] Dr. Pawluk: Correct. And then we have, if there again, none of these meet your needs, that we have other devices available, you'd have to again consult with us for us to make the proper recommendation for you.

[01:31:13.09] Scott: Beautiful. So my last question is the same for every guest, and that is what are some of the key things that you personally do on a daily basis in support of your own health?

[01:31:20.20] Dr. Pawluk: Primarily, eat properly. I walk three and a half miles every morning with my wife every morning. Well, except maybe when there's deep water, sheer ice, two feet of snow, and really gale strength winds.  But that's only probably 20, at the most 20 days a year that I have those restrictions.

I use magnetic therapy every night. I use a magnetic therapy device under my pill every night, I sleep with it. I drink a good big green drink every day. I use CBD, and I use PEA.

[01:31:59.16] Scott: Beautiful. For inflammation?

[01:32:02.11] Dr. Pawluk: Well, PEA works together synergistically with CBD. But yes, for inflammation, so it's a good anti-aging molecule as well.

[01:32:11.10] Scott: And it's also good for people with Mast Cell Activation Syndrome and histamine intolerance.

[01:32:16.06] Dr. Pawluk: Itching, exactly.

[01:32:17.21] Scott: Beautiful.

[01:32:19.18] Dr. Pawluk: And then I have a bunch of supplements; I take a handful of supplements every day.

[01:32:23.05] Scott: This has been a fun conversation, your passion for the topic is electrifying. Your personality is magnetic, and just appreciate all that you've shared with us today. Thank you for taking the time to share your wisdom and your knowledge and experience.

I hope that people will explore the PEMF therapies. I know personally, in my own journey, recovering from Lyme disease and mold illness, I have found PEMF to be very helpful. Particularly with the hypercoagulation and those areas that we talked about. So thank you so much, Dr. Pawluk, for being here.

[01:32:52.29] Dr. Pawluk: Thank you very much for inviting me and sharing with your audience. And may you be well, be safe.

[01:32:59.06] To learn more about today's guest, check out the show notes at BetterHealthGuy.com/episode134. That's BetterHealthGuy.com/episode134. BetterHealthGuy.com/episode134.

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