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In this episode, you will learn about the use of Induced Native Phage Therapy in dealing with chronic infections.

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About My Guest

My guest for this episode is Dr. David Jernigan.  David Jernigan, DNM, DC is one of the country’s top innovators of precision bioenergetic testing and treatment technologies, with his most recent innovation, INPT (Induced Native Phage Therapy) possibly being one of his most important technologies to date.  He is constantly pushing the limits of research and development with a passion to get ever closer to 100% cure rate.  He was the first to publish a book on the natural treatment of people suffering from post-treatment Lyme Disease and is a published author of five books, with his best-seller being, “Beating Lyme Disease, 2nd Edition”.  He is nationally recognized as a leader in the purest form of medical treatment philosophy, Biological and Bioregulatory Medicine.  For 27 years, Dr. Jernigan and his team of doctors have only treated the toughest cases, with almost 90% of patients coming from other states and countries for his unique testing and treatments.  He has trained doctors to utilize his powerful new technologies in his flagship clinic, the Biologix Center for Optimum Health, in Franklin, Tennessee, specializing in the treatment of chronic illness and previously considered incurable cases.

Key Takeaways

  • What are phages and where do they originate?
  • How difficult is it to find phages in our environment?
  • Are phages always health-promoting?
  • How does a phage lead to the demise of an organism?
  • Does each bacteria or bacterial species have its own phage?
  • How does INPT induce native phages?
  • Can multiple phages be induced simultaneously?
  • Does INPT lead to Herxheimer reactions?
  • What was the success rate with INPT in a recent research paper?
  • Do lab tests exist for Borrelia phages? Bartonella? Others?
  • Can phages be used to address fungal colonization from exposure to water-damaged buildings?
  • Are phages helpful in addressing Candida overgrowth?
  • Might a phage be helpful in addressing MARCoNS?
  • Do phages work for parasites?
  • Can phages deal with viruses such as EBV or Herpes Zoster?
  • Does the right phage for the triggering infection bring resolution to conditions believed to be autoimmune?

Connect With My Guest


Related Resources

Research Paper: Induced Native Phage Therapy for the Treatment of Lyme Disease and Relapsing Fever: A Retrospective Review of First 14 Months in One Clinic

Interview Date

February 10, 2022


Transcript Disclaimer: Transcripts are intended to provide optimized access to information contained in the podcast.  They are not a full replacement for the discussion.  Timestamps are provided to facilitate finding portions of the conversation.  Errors and omissions may be present as the transcript is not created by someone familiar with the topics being discussed.  Please Contact Me with any corrections.  

[00:00:01.07] Welcome to BetterHealthGuy Blogcasts, empowering your better health. And now, here's Scott, your Better Health Guy.

[00:00:13.26] The content of this show is for informational purposes only and is not intended to diagnose, treat, or cure any illness or medical condition. Nothing in today's discussion is meant to serve as medical advice or as information to facilitate self-treatment. As always, please discuss any potential health-related decisions with your own personal medical authority.

[00:00:34.04] Scott: Hello everyone, and welcome to episode number 161 of the BetterHealthGuy Blogcast series. Today's guest is Dr. David Jernigan, and the topic of the show is Phage Therapy. Dr. David Jernigan is one of the country's top innovators of precision bioenergetic testing and treatment technologies, with his most recent innovation INPT or Induced Native Phage Therapy, possibly being one of his most important technologies to date.

He is constantly pushing the limits of research and development, with a passion to get even closer to 100 percent cure rate. He was the first to publish a book on natural treatment of people suffering from post-treatment Lyme disease, and is a published author of five books, with his bestselling being “Beating Lyme Disease, Second Edition”.

He is nationally recognized as a leader in the purest form of medical treatment philosophy, biological and bioregulatory medicine. For 27 years, Dr. Jernigan and his team of doctors have only treated the toughest cases, with almost 90 percent of patients coming from other states and countries for his unique testing and treatments. He has trained doctors to utilize his powerful new technologies in his flagship clinic, The Biologix Center for Optimum Health in Franklin, Tennessee, specializing in the treatment of chronic illness and previously considered incurable diseases. And now, my interview with Dr. David Jernigan.

I had Dr. Jernigan on the podcast early on episode 24, back when I was using Skype to record calls. He was my first guest that did the podcast on his cell phone, and I ended up with a full hour of nothing but his nose on video. That's why that episode became audio-only, but fortunately, today, we will get to see more of him than just his nose. Thanks for being here, Dr. Jernigan. 

[00:02:35.26] Dr. Jernigan: I sure appreciate you having me.

[00:02:38.17] Scott: What is a phage? Where do phages originate? Do they originate from bacteria themselves, or are they already within us?

[00:02:48.02] Dr. Jernigan: Well, they're everywhere present, they're ubiquitous in nature is what article after article in the peer-reviewed text will tell you, is that they're ubiquitous in nature and they're the dominant species on the planet. Humans, in comparison, are almost non-existent; I mean, what is it? Three billion on the planet, I haven't really kept up with the world population.

[00:03:13.12] Scott: I think it's seven or eight.

[00:03:15.12] Dr. Jernigan: Is it really? Okay.

[00:03:17.24] Scott: I know you're always busy researching, so you get a pass.

[00:03:21.27] Dr. Jernigan: So I'm going to tell you a number that I've never, I can't conceive of the number, but in peer review, it says that the experts estimate that there are 10 million trillion, trillion bacteriophages and phages on the whole on the planet. There are so many of them that if they were the size of grains of sand, they would completely cover the earth and be 50 miles deep. Okay, so if they were the size of ladybugs, they would completely cover the earth and be 31,000 miles deep, if you can fathom that number.

So compare that to even maybe the entire human population from the beginning of time; it is minuscule in comparison to 10 million trillion trillion. And for those people that are not used to talking about phages, a phage is a virus that only infects another microbe. Okay, now people get scared when they hear about a virus, but a bacteriophage is a virus that will infect bacteria.

So to keep that into perspective, they will not infect human cells, so these are not the same as your flu and other types of viruses, Epstein Barr and stuff like that. But there are bacteriophages, and there are mycophages that infect molds and Candida type yeasts and things like that, and then there are even virophages, phages that infect other phages.

So it's this, our expanded idea of where they were, where they came from, did they come from bacteria? Definitely not. They were actually kind of like just another thing from the beginning of time, and they've been warring of sorts with bacteria and all these other microbes since the beginning of time. They say they're everywhere present, so where are they not? I mean, it's not possible to have a bacteria practically that doesn't already have an infection itself of a bacteriophage.

[00:05:45.04] Scott: They are introduced into the body when we acquire the microbes that they're hosted within.

[00:05:51.28] Dr. Jernigan: Yes. And that was one of my epiphanies that hit me when I first started dealing with this again. I started my work on this in 2014, but I basically shelved it because I was missing some pieces. But when the various epiphanies hit me, that was one of them was just kind of going what if every infection is already infected, and when that tick bites you or the mosquito bites you, or you acquire the infection through any other way, through a cut in the skin or sexual transmission or French kissing or whatever it is that you did, that infection entered the body already infected with its bacteriophage.

Now, it's important for people to understand that for every type of bacteria, there is a specific type of bacteriophage that will use that bacteria as a host. Now viruses, it's being debated again and kind of thought again about whether viruses can be said to be alive, you know a lot of the time say they're not alive. And the only reason they're not considered alive is because they cannot self-replicate, okay. The definition of something alive, by whoever set up that definition said hey, you must be able to self-replicate. So that means a virus cannot make more viruses in and of itself, there's no male and female viruses, and so it needs a host.

Now, bacteriophage is only specific to the type of bacteria that you're dealing with. So it's like it will only use typically one type of bacteria. So Staphylococcus aureus has a Staphylococcus aureus bacteriophage that uses that specific type of bacteria as a host to replicate more of those phages.

So Borrelia burgdorferi has a different bacteriophage than the Staph did; it has its own type of phage, well guess what? All the different types of Borrelia also have their own specific type of bacteriophage. So if you say Borrelia miyamotoi, that has its own Borrelia miyamotoi bacteriophage that will infect that, and use it as a host exclusively.

[00:08:21.08] Scott: So what is the job then of these phages, what's their life cycle, their purpose? Are they defense mechanisms to protect humans that we just really have not until recently been aware of?

[00:08:35.08] Dr. Jernigan: Their purpose, literally, you might see it as the balancer of the planet, to keep other types of species from overpopulating. So again, researchers estimate that there are a trillion trillion infections, new microbe infections by phages per second on the planet. And that they kill 40% of the bacteria on the planet every day.

So you might kind of go, why not just kill all of them? Why don't the phages just go out and kill all the bad bacteria? I mean, then we wouldn't be alive because they'd also kill all the friendly bacteria, the bacteria that we need for health. Friendly flora, if you will, the microbiome of the body, if bacteriophages didn't stop at 40% every day, they'd wipe them out too, right? So when the bacteriophage infects the bacteria, it lands on top of it. So if this is your bacteria, it lands on top of it, and it sticks essentially like a hypodermic needle inside of the bacteria and injects it with its own genetic code that gets integrated into the genetic engine of that bacteria.

So in that way, the bacteria's genetic engine can start cranking out lots and lots, up to 5200 they say more prophages they're called at this point inside of that bacteria, so many that finally, the sheer volume and the different enzymes they secrete rupture the bacteria, killing it, and all of those 5200 prophages spill into the body and go find more of that type of bacteria.

So if all that phage activity against that type of bacteria, let's say it's a Borrelia burgdorferi type of phage, you might want it to go and kill everyone, of course, every patient would love that. But the phages use chemical signaling to each other, to actually say hey, we've killed the 40% essentially, everybody stop killing anymore, don't do anything, because they want to protect the host, because, without the host, the virus would die itself with nothing to replicate.

[00:11:05.02] Scott: So do we find these phages outside of the body as well? Are they important in balancing of ecosystems in nature, for example?

[00:11:15.11] Dr. Jernigan: Yes, actually that 40 percent number is something we found out from all of the ocean waters and inland waters that you can look at; they've just estimated about 40 percent of that balancing effect. You're not wiping out whole populations of bacteria; you're actually just modulating the population on the planet at all times.

[00:11:37.19] Scott: Why is it that sewage is a place that researchers look for phages and catalog and create libraries from?

[00:11:45.26] Dr. Jernigan: Well, because they want to go where bacteria are, and where are bacteria? It's going to be in dirt and sewage and manure. They look everywhere they can think of for new types of bacteriophages, and so there are just incredible libraries now of catalogued and stored bacteriophages that they can use, that they've found out in nature.

But let's kind of keep it in perspective a little bit; they say that, let's say there are roughly 1.5 trillion cells in the body, something like 53% of the cells of your body are not even human cells; they're bacteria. So we are, by definition, if you're going to say the presence of bacteria is what illness is or something that, then you are a walking talking infection. I mean, there's more of them than there are of our own cells. Now you consider the phages that live inside of your body, they say in one milliliter of saliva. Okay, that's a tiny amount.

I know Americans typically don't know one milliliter, but there's 30 milliliters in one fluid ounce, okay. So if you have a one-ounce dropper bottle, just think about that and just say okay, but in one milliliter, there are 100 billion phages all the time. Not all the same kind either; there's just like as many types of bacteria that are in your body, you will have phages. But you don't have every kind of phage on the planet, because you don't have every kind of bacteria on the planet.

So you cannot have a Borrelia burgdorferi bacteriophage in your body if you do not have any Borrelia burgdorferi bacteria in your body, because they need that one type to actually replicate over and over, more and more phages. So essentially, kind of a question you already asked is, do they help us in regulating the bacteria? I really think they do.

It's essentially the virome like everyone talks about the microbiome, but the virome of your body, most of those viruses that are floating around the body are not even harming us; they're actually helping us. I've come to the debatable perspective that when there's an imbalance in even the friendly flora, there's probably an imbalance in the phage activity that's going on there, because normally, the phages will help us regulate infections.

[00:14:20.23] Scott: So that's an interesting comment, normally the phages will help us regulate infections, which leads me to ask. Are phases always health-promoting in the body, or is there a concept of a pathogenic phase that could be health negating? In other words, are they always friend, or can they, at times under certain conditions, be foe?

[00:14:41.05] Dr. Jernigan: Well, they can definitely; they're dominantly our friends, okay. But there can definitely be times, in unusual circumstances such as using fluoroquinolone type antibiotics to try to kill bacteria, it actually has been shown that things like Cipro, which is a fluoroquinolone class of antibiotic. Cipro will activate phages to instead of do their normal thing, which isn't dangerous, to activate just the genetic aspect of the bacterial host to start cranking out tons and tons of toxins.

So you've made a bad infection even more deadly. You think about sepsis and things where you know, a lot of people think sepsis is about the bacteria accumulating in the blood or something like that. But it's actually the toxins of some of these bacteria that actually creates a lot of the damaging effects and the sepsis.

[00:15:39.12] Scott: So you talked about how phages within the body would at most deal with about 40% of any microbial overgrowth at a specific time, that they're not going to fully eliminate it. So let's then talk about your invention, your research, INPT or Induced Native Phage Therapy.

Is that technology something that potentially then can eliminate more than 40%? Can it potentially eliminate a hundred percent of a specific organism? Or is there some aspect of INPT that is needed in terms of a maintenance therapy overtime to keep the phages activated?

[00:16:21.15] Dr. Jernigan: So it's important for your listeners to think about a phage; there are two different life cycles. The one that you're asking about, where the normal process of life for a phage is to get the bacteria to replicate more and more, and that's what I call typically like farming the bacteria. Because if you think of a rancher, he doesn't just say okay, it's time to take the cattle to the market, and so he takes his entire herd; he only takes those that he doesn't want for breeding stock, okay.

So the viruses do the same thing; the phages will do the same thing, okay. They actually only kill that 60% of the population, leaving 40% now to be the breeders, and allow that bacteria population to once again populate replicate more and more bacteria, okay. Overnight essentially, they're just accumulating again that population of bacteria, and then go start the whole process over again, down to about the 40 percent. So that is that process of farming the bacteria is something called lysogenic activities, lysogenic, okay.

So the opposite of that would be where, due to different stimuli, and this is one of the things that clued me in, was like a peer-reviewed article that said during different influences, sometimes very subtle influences on the human, the virus that's a phage can turn lytic. So we had lysogenic, now we have lytic, which you might think of as virulence, okay. It just goes crazy and kills all of their hosts, okay.

So this can be subtle things like pH changes, it could be electromagnetic fields just from your environment, it could be all kinds of things, it could be a medication that modifies the phage. I mean, many people know that Epstein Barr virus, which is a human virus, it's not a bacteriophage or any other kind of phage; it's actually a human virus. It can get activated just by medications you took, some sort of medication, and it goes lytic, which means it goes active again, it goes crazy from where it was before, and it's just basic dormant lysogenic type of activities.

So the concept of farming versus swarming, I call it, where they actually, the phages just go and kill 100% of the infection, is documented pretty well in all the different literature. Of course, they're talking typically about not Induced Native Phage Therapy; nobody else had ever postulated that you should be able to turn on these phages that already entered your body with the bacteria infection, right? So the rest of the world, which is a brilliant model, is taking, like you said, phages that they found in sewage or phages that they found in manure, phages they found in humans maybe, I don't know where they're finding them all, but anyway wherever bacteria are present.

Typically, what those types of centers are doing, mostly in Europe like Georgia, the ex-part of Russia, what used to be part of the USSR, not Georgia the state. They would actually match your infection, like culture your infection in a laboratory, let's say, and then they would take from their library of these stages that they have on hand and introduce it into the petri dish with your bacteria, and see which phages actually will kill those bacteria.

So there is a huge push around the world as antibiotics are starting to become more of a problem than a correction. I mean, it's really gotten bad with bacterial mutations and things, making it where people, I think it's number three cause of death in the world now, is antibiotic-resistant infections.

So there are some great centers like the Taylor Lab in Baylor Medical Center in Texas; they're doing some phenomenal things and starting to actually make inroads to making that type of bacteriophage therapy available to a lot of people. What my idea was, really was that idea that the phages are ubiquitous in nature, they're so prevalent that I was like kind of going, it's almost an impossibility in my mind that you could get some bacterial infection entering your body that didn't already have bacteriophages within it.

So the native means just simply that it's already in your body, it cannot turn against you okay, all these ideas that it might hurt you, and it might turn against you, or it might wipe out all your friendly flora. Hopefully, I've answered that already.

It's like one type of phage against one type of bacteria, so you're not going to get it wiping out your friendly flora suddenly just because we activate it, nor any other type of friendly bacteria. It only will go after the type of bacteria that it's supposed to go after. So that's the concept of native phages, and to induce, obviously, was an obvious word when I was thinking about what to call this because I am causing these native phages to go virulent, to turn lytic against their hosts.

[00:22:16.10] Scott: So when someone utilizes this technology that you've developed INPT, is that something that largely addresses the microbial overgrowth and you're done? Or is there a maintenance aspect over time that you need to continue to activate or induce the phages?

[00:22:35.28] Dr. Jernigan: Well, we had to ask all these same questions too, because nobody had ever done this before. Matter of fact, I was the first doctor to even present research at the 1999 International Tick-borne Diseases conference. I mean, Willie Burgdorfer was there, Joseph Burrascano, all the giants were there, and here's this one doctor, chiropractor who's actually presenting research, laboratory proof that said look, we're proving that this actually does work.

In that research, in all of my books I ended up writing, I've written four books on Lyme disease and the treatment of people with that diagnosis using natural means, trying to get people to understand that it's not just the bug. So if anybody read any of my old books, you're going to see they're kind of antiquated now, compared to what we're doing, because I always taught that health is not the absence of all the bad guys. Well, how do we know?

Well, you have, I can't even count; I was trying to come up with a realistic number, but I can't even think of how many times a husband and wife came in; I tested both of them with the lab tests through IGeneX, and we did the LUAT test back in the day, and the Western blot and IgM, IgG and it would come back highly positive for the husband and the wife, but only maybe the wife had the disease, had the illness. Husband never, I've known some of these people ever since, I've been in practice almost 30 years, and the husband never did get it.

He still has the infection probably, or she has no symptoms, but she has the infection, and he has the illness. So even way back then in my books, I was like, okay, well obviously, having the infection doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to get sick with any kind of microbe, and it's been fascinating all of my career to watch the industry. So I mean, the world is infinitely different now than it was in the 90s when I first got started; I mean, Lyme had only been identified back in the late 80s.

So here I am, nobody knew anything that I was finding, which was oh my gosh, there was just people from all over the country and all over the world coming to me, and they weren't even supposed to have Lyme disease; obviously, it was in Lyme, Connecticut and only in New England. These people had never been to New England, and I'm trying to convince them more than anything else that I'm right, that they do have the infection, right? It has been a quite a journey, but to see the industry run from Borrelia burgdorferi initially, to then they go to the Babesia microti, and we all ran towards that and tried to figure out solutions for that, because that's why a bunch of our patients weren't getting well. We did what we could do for the Borrelia, but they're still not well; oh, it's the Babesia now causing it. Well, then it was Ehrlichia, we got to start now looking at Ehrlichia, and everyone ran towards that.

And then it was like all kinds of things yeast, and everyone would do well; we were already against yeast and parasites and heavy metals even way back then, but it's just been this journey. Then it was Bartonella henselae, well now there's like 20 different Bartonellas you need to actually look for, there are 20 something different Borrelia bacteria that we now need to look for, that the lab tests most of them don't even detect, because the labs just can't run huge panels of, and find every type that a person might have.

So it is a different thing for me to try to now educate patients, that if I'm successful, guess what these phages will do? They do what phages do when they turn lytic; they just annihilate the entire population of the targeted bacteria. It's incredible because number one, that can happen depending on how big the population is of bacteria in your body; it could happen virtually overnight. If there's not that many, you've done a whole lot of work on yourself; I'm serious.

It's like imagine a treatment that you're only taking the medicine for four days, and you don't have horrible side effects; we'll get into that, I'm sure, later, but it's gone. Not mostly gone, not in remission, okay. Remission is a temporary pause, usually, in your symptoms. It cannot be placebo. I mean, people, I'm trying to throw out there all these things that my opponents would say to me this was like oh, it's just placebo, it's like you can't placebo yourself out of having an infection. Let's say it was a flesh-eating infection, and you really love me, and you think my medicine works great, but it's a belief system no, that infection has not gone away.

Your symptom might improve because a placebo just through your believing, but the actual infection is not going to be gone. Try to placebo a tapeworm out of a body or something like that; no, not going to happen. No matter how much you love me and think that I'm awesome, right? Or think that the medicine that you're taking is like a sugar pill and doesn't do anything. So another realization that's attached to this question that you asked me is, do you now have some sort of immunity? No.

But the cool thing is, and why do we know you don't? Because we're not at all involving your immune system. There's no; I'm not trying to activate your immune system; I don't even want to use your immune system for anything other than being the cleanup crew, to clean up the mess of dead bacteria, okay. Because when you see it happen in a petri dish and the phages kill the bacteria, it literally looks like a grenade went off inside of that bacteria, just huge tiny little cloud of pieces that explodes the bacteria. So all there is, is tiny little pieces, okay. So the interesting thing that somebody should understand is if you get re-infected, let's say another tick or mosquito or some biting insect bites you or maybe you had intercourse with somebody that had the Borrelia infection and they give it to you, those bacteria are now entering your body also with phages that have never seen the inducing frequencies, the induced phage therapy, right? So those phages, according to what we've seen, respond just as quickly to the induced native page therapies as the original infection.

[00:29:33.15] Scott: So you mentioned that Borrelia.

[00:29:35.05] Dr. Jernigan: Before you go there before you go with that question, I want to say something. Dr. Lida Mattman was a friend of mine. She was a researcher on stealth pathogens. I want to say this to people, this is like, your immune system is never going to fix the Borrelia, okay. So cranking up your immune system with immune system stimulators and boosters, your immune system cannot see this bacteria; it's like the stealth bomber in the air force and stuff like that.

It's invisible to radar, to some degree. Well, to some degree, this is also largely a stealth microbe, she would call it. So Lida Mattman was nominated at our Nobel prize and things like that for her work, but somebody that says, well, is this going to crank up your immune system, what I'm doing, what the phage work is doing? No. Even if it did, it can't see it. So no, it's not going to really affect the process here.

Which is really cool, because a lot of the people that we see have such a dysregulated and dysfunctional immune response to things; they have mast cell activation syndrome, they have histamine up the wazoo, and they're just hyper-reactive to everything, even their immune system is, it overreacts to stimulus to the point where they're reacting to the entire world including the microbial and viral world. These are already viruses living harmoniously in your body; the phages are. And they will actually stay that way, even after they've killed the last bacteria.

Matter of fact, the phages themselves die four days after the last bacteria is dead, so they don't even persist in your body. So it's not like now you have this cool phage army that now is ready the next time you get infected, no. They die, because there's nothing else there to replicate that type of phage.

[00:31:46.05] Scott: I definitely think your point about immune-boosting is an important one. I see that as kind of a common trap that people just want to boost their immune system, when I would argue that it's immune modulation, that the immune dysregulation and hypervigilance is really the bigger problem. That it's not so much about boosting, but more about modulating.

And it's interesting that we've been looking outside of ourselves for the solution to Lyme disease for decades, and what you're finding is that the solution is already within us, and we just need to induce it, which is a very different way of thinking about things. I mean, it's really hard to even kind of wrap your mind around it.

Earlier in the conversation, you mentioned that Borrelia would have a different phage from a Staph organism, for example. You suggested that different Borrelias would also have different phages. So if there are 50 different types of Borrelia, dozens of Bartonellas, multiple Babesias, for example, do we need a different inducer for each one of those? And then extending on that, what happens if the organism itself mutates within a person such that it no longer is induced by that specific frequency or that specific inducer? Is that a possibility?

[00:33:04.18] Dr. Jernigan: Yes. Actually, there are different inducers that are needed for each and every type of infection that you might have. So it would require a totally different inducer from the INPT perspective to induce the Borrelia burgdorferi than it would from the Borrelia miyamotoi type of infection and duncani and all the other ones.

So yes, you would definitely need one type of inducer for each thing. So when we first got started, when I first started doing this, it was interesting because when you're the first one to postulate something, you don't have any book to turn to, so I actually just had to watch and see, I didn't know, it's like dude is this going to work if we mix two inducers in the same remedy? I knew it would work pretty quickly on just one at a time, but can I mix it? Sure.

So now the inducen LDRF that we published in the peer review journal article about, it actually has inducers for each and every type of thing that I would typically see over my three decades of doing this, almost where there's just a whole predictable type of infection load in a chronically ill type of Lyme patient. So it has all of the different, now, it's taken a while to accumulate this, but it's like we have all of the different types of borrelia represented in there, so no type of beryllia that you can name do we not already have in that formula as an inducer. We have all the Babesias, all the Bartonellas, all the Mycoplasma like fermentans incognitus, we have just a whole slew of things in there. Ehrlichia is in there, and just an array of things, so it's a monster remedy. If anybody wants to see the list of bacteria, it is at my website. If you go to PhagenCorp.com, this isn't a promo, just to kind of like I know that listeners are probably going to say, well, what's in there?

[00:35:17.02] Scott: It's fine. I was going to ask you anyway, so.

[00:35:18.19] Dr. Jernigan: Yes. So PhagenCorp is the name of the company that I've set up, because I'm like going, oh my gosh, we need to get this out there to the sick and dying, okay, the sick and suffering to relieve some of this, and so I set up a separate company to do that and that's called phagencorp.com. You can go to our medicines, and right now, I just have up there probably about halfway down the page; you can click on a link that takes you to what organism, what bacteria are included in that one formula, okay.

So it's kind of nice because when antibiotics get credited for killing and curing the infections, it is usually very broad spectrum in its action; it's killing all kinds of bad guys, not just the target one. Most people don't realize that the medical research says that, at best, our antibiotics that we use today will only kill 85 percent of the targeted bacteria ever. So that leaves 15 percent now mutated, and antibiotic-resistant to that one type of antibiotic.

So switching from a pill form of that antibiotic to an IV form of that antibiotic isn't really going to do anything; the bacteria have already mutated, as you said, to get away from that antibiotic. Sometimes within just like minutes of taking the first dose. So a lot of the die-off, which is a misunderstanding of the science, much of those that Herxheimer reaction is actually being caused by the medications effect, not the actual dyeing of bacteria.

[00:37:05.04] Scott: So I'm probably over thinking that if we think about mutations, the organisms came into the body with the phages that could then address them. If the organism mutates within the human host, is there a possibility that it's mutated such that its original phage no longer affects it?

[00:37:25.18] Dr. Jernigan: It has been a battle from the beginning of time; if you think of the phage and bacteria relationship that they've had since the beginning of time, okay. So over that millennia of time, bacteria have developed different defense mechanisms against phages, okay. So most people have heard about genetic splicing, where we're doing gene therapies, where they cut out parts of the genetic material and insert their own kind.

[00:37:58.20] Scott: Like CRISPR? 

[00:38:00.04] Dr. Jernigan: CRISPR-Cas is a bacterial defense mechanism against phages. So they just said, wow, let's just do that on purpose, we'll do that, and we can cut the genetic material. So literally, the bacteria can produce this CRISPR-Cas enzyme that just destroys or at least stops the phages from being able to successfully infect them. So obviously, some get through, but some don't; otherwise, the phages would just die off.

So I just read research just last week that was published saying that they now know that the phages mutate to, in response to the mutations of the bacteria. So like, if an antibiotic is pushing this bacteria around, the phages will modify themselves as well to still be able to use it as a host. It's pretty amazing, because people that have had the Induced Native Phage Therapy are sometimes not understanding that this is a battle.

This isn't a chemical medicine; everything up to this point pretty much has been a chemical that you introduce to the body, it has a predictable outcome, and everything generally works. Like when you take an antihistamine, it's going to do what it does, because it has that chemical in there.

Well, when we're treating by trying to activate the bacteriophages, you're dealing with almost like a child, if you can imagine. It's like try to get your child to behave all the time, to do what you want them to do all the time. To pick up their clothes, to make their bed, to go to school on time, to do their homework, whatever it is, okay. Well, the bacteria phages are living essentially, okay.

They don't say they're alive, but every other one way that you can look at it is this living organism, and it's coming against another living organism, and it's a battle that takes place, and the outcome we all want the phage to win, but the bacteria are fighting back. But the cool thing about a lot of this is the phages, and the bacteria have never seen this type of situation, and the phages, when they go lytic, they kill the population so rapidly that the bacteria really seem to not have the ability many times to mutate and defend themselves successfully. It is one of those situations where it would be nice if it was just some chemical thing, where you get a chemical response in the body, and it's a very predictable thing. Nut the dominant thing that we see like well over 90 percent of the time is that the phages win, and that infection is gone.

[00:40:52.26] Scott: You alluded earlier to the fact that INPT, that induction is essentially using a frequency that's activating the phages to induce this defense mechanism against the bacteria in the body. Would you say this is a new class of energy medicine? Can we view this as sort of a software program that is then programming the phases to do what they do?

[00:41:20.20] Dr. Jernigan: Well, in this day and age, I've kind of dropped the whole software programming since debatably the powers that they are kind of manipulating software. But epigenetics, when they did the human genome project to map the human genome, they realized that they're not going to find the answer to all the different illnesses on the planet in the genome, that there were four million epigenetic switches that they had been throwing away when they were doing their work, they'd say okay, this is just excess material around the DNA, they didn't realize it was the four million epigenetic switches that actually, I like to say the DNA is a lot like a blueprint for building a house, okay.

Once it's on the blueprint, your walls and doors and windows and your roofline and the way your house looks structurally, pretty much always will stay the same. This is kind of why we all wake up looking in the mirror, and we still look like us, okay. It's not going to change. But epigenetics is these switches that when they get flipped, essentially it looks, that's where the sofa is one day, or maybe you decided to move it to another place. You hung a picture over here, the trash can is over here, and it's like okay, so these things are changeable, and the ability to go from lysogenic, where they're just farming the bacteria, to lytic, where they absolutely swarm and kill them all, is not a function of genetics, but a function of epigenetics.

Now, this isn't just me saying this, this is actually published research, and so, that is manipulated via electromagnetic, subtle electromagnetic frequencies. So much more subtle than your cell phone. Your cell phone is blasting your body with frequencies. If you're scared of frequencies and saying something like that, then don't ever touch your computer and laptop and get rid of your smart house, which I think you should do anyway. I think your house should be hardwired, no wi-fi. But that's a whole nother thing if you realized how easy; what this research also shows is how easy it is to manipulate the viruses when you know how to do it, with just basically very subtle frequencies. So the question as to whether this is a new class of energy medicine, absolutely. It's not anything that you can name. I mean, people try to say, oh, is this radionics? No. Is it rife? No. Is it homeopathy? No. I mean, there's no dilutions and succussions of homeopathy, there's no, it's not rife.

All these technologies are fine for what they would do, and I feel like I cut my teeth on all those technologies and eventually let them fall away just because they just were very limited. You're only as good as the best frequencies you knew that ran, and it's a very simplistic thing, let's run one frequency for borrelia burgdorferi or even if you had ten frequencies for Borrelia burgdorferi, or 100 frequencies, that's still so very simplistic.

I mean, does it work to some degree? Yes, I'm not coming against that. But I'm just clarifying, when you're talking about electromagnetic frequencies, you have to understand too those frequencies, and that term is really just this umbrella term that is often used to just talk about energy. Of course, energy is the ability to do work; okay, that's the webster definition. But it's really more than just frequencies that you have to have the answer to; you have to be able to figure out the microamps, you have to figure out the wave slope, the polarity and the frequency, which we call hertz, right? For each and every little thing that we do. So obviously, you're not going to say that; you're just going to call it frequency.

So it's not just hey; I'm going to get a frequency generator. You know I've had all kinds of devices, I even had Lakhovsky’s Multiple Wave Oscillator in my early clinic, and every time I would turn it on, my phone system would say this number is no longer in service. I tried to shield it with my lead shield from my x-ray machine, and it's like you couldn't shield it, it looked like something coming out of a Frankenstein movie with all the electrical sparks coming off, and it was just another one of those technologies though. But this is not anything that has come prior.

[00:45:56.28] Scott: So, given that INPT is using frequency to induce phages which I love, I've said for years that the solution will come in some frequency form, and so this is super exciting. But what role do you think man-made environmental EMFs or frequencies might be playing in contributing to these chronic infectious states in the first place.

[00:46:20.21] Dr. Jernigan: Oh my goodness, that's a huge, absolutely maybe even a hundred percent of the time, there is environmental frequencies that are interfering with the regulation of our bodies. I mean, when we can get people away from their cell phone, like our clinic has a no cell phone policy. There are designated places you can go, but we literally have meters that we walk around the clinic to make sure you're not cheating, and you're inadvertently hurting the person next to you, maybe who is trying to get well. Is it the salt in the cut, or did it cause the cut? I think a lot of the time, it's the salt in the cut, and sometimes it's actually what cuts you.

So when you're that desperately sick, which is all that we see, okay. We don't see easy cases usually ever; we've never. We're not a family practice that sometimes sees some tough cases; we only see tough cases. Matter of fact, sometimes our doctors we look at each other and just go we need a healthier sick person, because nobody would pick this type of field for the fun of it, because it's really just, I mean we have fun, because we have so many different inventions and technologies, we can bring to bear on a patient that we get to win a lot.

Especially now with phages, I can tell you in the old days I do phone consultations, and I'd hear these infections going, raging these people that have these infections, and they would just, you just look at it, and you just know this is going to be a battle, and it's going to take a while, right? Because of that, it's really hard to be excited and keep rallying them and say, okay, well, doing nothing is a horrible idea; I spent time treating patients in Africa.

You really get to see what do nothing does; these diseases just get so out of control in Africa where there's not access to good treatment, right? So doing nothing is not a good idea. Doing the same things that you've already done that didn't work and maybe even damaged you is a terrible idea. So I'm always like going well, no guarantees, I wish I could, we're just going to do something dramatically different like what we do in our center, just may be what you need.

But now, I'm so freaking excited, like now when I do phone consults and stuff, and I look at their file, I'm like going, please come. Man, I just wish I had all my career over to do over again because of induced native page therapy. It's just that exciting, but it has taught a huge lesson, and I hope everybody's still with us listening to this because you need to look at phage therapy, whether you're doing Induced Native Phage Therapy or even the classic bacteriophage therapy like I was talking about was taking place at Baylor Medical Center in Texas with the Taylor Lab.

I don't care what kind you're doing; it's analogous to finding termites in your house. If you find that you have termites that just started maybe working away on the wood of your house, you can call an exterminator, and it kills all the termites, and because you caught it early, life goes back to normal. And when the storm winds kick up, your house isn't going to fall down, right? But if it's been there a long time, simply killing the termites is just part of the treatment that's great; it's wonderful. Yay, we killed all the infection.

But the wood damage remains; the damage in the body is what I'm talking about, remains. And it's not like even I've seen this with people in my career for a long time to where they would even kind of think of toxins if we go into that aspect of things, and we talk about toxic substances, and we're going to grab onto them with chelating agents, and we're going to pull them out of the body and life is just going to go back to normal because you cleaned it up, you mopped it up, you swept it up. You eliminated it from the body; you did 40 chelation therapies and stuff whatever you did.

Well, we call it a toxin because it damages tissues. It is another termite that is damaging the nerves; it's damaging your organs, it's damaging things. It's like literally like thinking that if you had acid, like a hydrochloric acid in your lungs, it's going to damage, it's going to literally burn the lungs to the point to where simply pouring in something that will neutralize the acid, while wonderful it's going to stop the progress.

There's so much more to healing than just that. You're going to have to go in now, and so the shock to a lot of patients with INPT is the idea that wow, if you really got rid of my infection, then why aren't I just perfectly well? Why can't I now walk? Where the infection destroyed my ability to walk? Why can't I use my brain? If you really did what you said you would do, people get that attitude of like yes, what we see is if it's an early infection, you really don't have a lot of tissue damage yet; it's just gone. I mean, from what we can see and from the lab testing. It's just gone, and the symptoms go away. But if it's like a lot of damage, which can happen rapidly with some people, it's going to take some time.

We've all historically generationally been taught by our medical doctors that you will be well once we can kill all these infections, and that's just not the case is I know that you know this because it's like if it was easy as that, it would be wonderful. It goes back to what I used to say, the absence of infection isn't health. It's the husband and wife both have the infection, both have everything the same, but one is sick, and one never get sick, okay. What does that one person who doesn't get sick have that the other one doesn't? And that was always my impetus of trying to create that in the sick person.

[00:52:50.01] Scott: So when we're talking about INPT and your clinical work, how do you determine which phases need to be activated in a specific person? Is that using your bio spectral emission sequencing system? And are you now finding that a phage or phage activation is always the best solution? Or are you still using herbs and homeopathy in some patients?

[00:53:14.11] Dr. Jernigan: Well, yes, we use the adjunctive testing like the Biospectral Emission Sequencing, to as an in-house way to determine what types of infections we believe are in the body. And then, the only thing that will actually be a primary diagnosis obviously is a lab test, and even most lab tests aren't a primary diagnosis as you know, your typical Lyme Western blot test it's not a primary diagnosis. If you look at the bottom of the page, it says this doesn't rule in or rule out the presence of anything.

It's an agreement, that if you had certain aspects of that test are positive, that yes, it's most likely that you have it. But like a PSA test on a man, that's not a primary diagnosis; you cannot use that as a definitive guide to prostate cancer. Many things that we do; the only thing like in cancer, the only primary diagnosis is a biopsy. So all these other imaging technologies, and people that make declarations and say thus say if me you have Lyme or anything else, there are adjunctive tests that we that doctors have come up with to try to figure it out, because if it was easy to figure out stuff, all the other previous doctors would have already figured you out.

Okay, so in our kind of clinic, I've developed over the many years of doing this, a way that we can to kind of use your words, access the software of the human body. All I mean is the energy fields that contain all the information of your body, and that used to be called bio-resonant scanning.

I mean, when I first developed that, it was an offshoot of several other techniques that I modified and turned it into something so brand new, I as a young doctor, I was like, oh my gosh, we're going to win the Nobel prize with this I mean, dude, I said this person according to my test has malaria, he's asymptomatic, I did the test and the lab which was lab core, it wasn't some fly by night lab, it was lab core the largest lab in the country, this was the first guy I tested my hypothesis with, this type of testing and the lab tech called me and says oh my gosh, this guy has malaria, and I'm like I know, isn't that cool?

And he says, well, how did you figure it out? And I was like, well, you don't want to go there. But I kept copies of that lab just in case men in black came and confiscated my stuff because of my going; it's the proof, original proof that it was what it was. So now, almost 30 years later, we're way beyond all that now. So bio-spectral emission sequencing is a way of sequencing literally electromagnetic sentences, very eloquent sentences. So you imagine the difference between somebody telling you to use a frequency with a rife machine, okay. That's one thing or doing computer bio-meridian type testing, where they're holding on to the things, and it's just running through a bunch of, I don't care if it's 10,000 different frequencies for things.

It's kind of an applause meter in my mind where it's like, it says, well, what does your body think about broccoli, just for example. If good yes, yes, the applause meter goes off, well, you don't know as a practitioner is that yes, because you're allergic to it, is it yes, because you've been juicing it for so long that you're now toxic to something in the broccoli, or is it yes, that you actually need that substance, you just don't know. It's fine for what it does, and it was an advancement on guessing; we definitely don't want to guess as doctors as much as possible.

So the Biospectral Emission Sequencing is just a very eloquent way, and I could not do any of the INPT without it. Matter of fact, when I was publishing the research on the inducing formulas and INPT for Lyme and Relapsing Fever, I was like going, you know if the world will acknowledge what I've done, what I've achieved, what I have accomplished here, even in a small way, you have to agree also to how I achieved it. You can't say, oh, well, that won't work.

You can appreciate the fact that I went to a conference, one of the many conferences we all go to, for continuing education, and I was talking to a PhD who was a vendor at the conference, and I thought I had a kindred spirit I could talk to, he was like PhD, and he goes oh no, that will never work, the testing that we do, that'll never work. And I was like, well, it's only worked for 20 something years at that point, it's 20 something years. So without it, I can't think of very many ways that a person could actually do this work.

[00:58:19.03] Scott: So, using that tool now when it comes to microbial stress, are you finding that induction of the phages is always the best tool? Or are there some cases where herbs and homeopathy still play a role?

[00:58:34.05] Dr. Jernigan: Well, it's interesting, we're all human, myself included. So every time I actually get something, I'm just like I'm out and about, and I'm not living in balance, let's say in some way, and an infection gets in, this is what I go to. And I do that, and that would be the first line thing that I would grab with patients now, because of that speed that I can get things to go away.

But you have to be able to attest to what it is that you have, which has been interesting, with all of this research on the Induced Native Phage Therapy is to see how that, a lot of the time, you get to kind of see what you always suspected because when we're testing the patient, and their worst organism that we can test to, that shows that their body thinks is the worst one anyway, we successfully got rid of that and then suddenly the body goes oh, this other infection now pops up, and it's now the biggest one.

But I will say too when we can sequence down to the causative, the real causative infection, and yes, you may have the borrelia, but it's not necessarily always going to be the number one thing going wrong with you. And it's fascinating to see that somebody let's say, with mast cell activation syndrome or something, that when I tracked it down, it was some bizarre bacteria called Moraxella osloensis or something, I mean literally. And when I made a phage inducer specifically for that one type of infection, the person's symptoms disappeared, just disappeared.

And I'm like going, how do I publish this, even as a case study because they're going to say, well, how did you do it? How did you know? Well, I did this testing that only I know how to do, and my doctors know how to do, and you can't do it, and I can't help that. So because I know that doctors around the world cannot actually do this type of work of testing their patient, that's nothing new, that's what your medical doctor does when he just says well, your lab test is, maybe iffy indeterminate, equivocal, whatever you want to call it for Borrelia, then they're just going to grab a broad-spectrum antibiotic. Well, these inducing formulas over the years of me formulating these are now like laser-guided bombs that will go and cause the phages to kill only the types of infections that you have.

So do I still grab the herbs and the homeopathics and anything else? Yes, there are times because there is a body component, anybody that tests any kind of sensitive testing must understand there is a body component that you're dealing with, and there's the infection component you're dealing with, okay. We're not dealing, might these inducing formulas are not dealing with the body component, so any time you would test a patient for an infection, and you give them the herbal component, the signal goes away for that infection, right?

So if I test the patient as having this, and this should fix it, and then I have the patient take that remedy, at that moment, the signal for the infection goes away, right? That shows you that's a body response to the treatment. But when you take the inducing formulas, the bacterial signal doesn't go away because it's not even; the body isn't even involved; that's what that tells me. So I like some of the herbal things still, but generally, not at the same time, and generally not, I want to be accurate with this. Are there times I might would blend them? Yes. I think this is a valid point; I think you could even blend this with antibiotics, that's being done even in the back, the classic bacteriophage therapies.

You can find all kinds of references that have just been published in the last few weeks even, on combining antibiotics with bacteriophages, because the phages they think get activated more strongly when you're using external phages, external phages, right? When the bacteria are already being injured by the antibiotic, okay. That's not the same with the Induced Native Phage Therapy, I don't think, because I don't see a huge benefit, and I actually see worse Herxheimer reactions coming back because, with phage therapy, you don't have the Herxheimer reaction almost at all.

[01:03:24.25] Scott: So that's an interesting statement, and it is really kind of my next question. If we think about things like Candida that bind to metals in the body, we think about parasites that maybe bind to metals in the body; we're now using this induction process to rapidly address a population of Candida, for example. Does that potentially then release those metals back into the system, where we still need to make sure that we have adequate detoxification support on board to manage that result?

[01:03:59.02] Dr. Jernigan: Well, I'm so glad you're asking this question because it's a question I get a lot. And when we're dealing with Borrelia, let's say that people ask our help for Borrelia a lot; they have done all the research, they meaning the scientists, the bench scientists, the PhD types, the big laboratories, and there is no endotoxin in Lyme, okay.

So anything we say about there not being a Herxheimer reaction with the borrelia type infections, you couldn't just say that as a blanket statement for everything. There are such thing like Bartonella, Bartonella bacteria do produce a toxin, so when you kill them, you better be mopping up all the mess, okay, but not Borrelia. So when you have the candida, like you said, that a lot of the time they sequester, they hold on to aluminum.

So when you're killing those types of things, you have to make sure, and you're taking your binders that would actually deal with the toxins, pull them out the chelating things to try to get out the aluminum, maybe a homeopathic chord of aluminum, that would also cause the body to excrete more and more of that actual substance than would naturally come out by itself.

Absolutely, you want to make sure and understand that when you're talking about spirochetes like Leptospira and relapsing fever and syphilis and stuff, there's no toxin; that was a misunderstanding of what was going wrong.

[01:05:34.18] Scott: You recently published the paper “Induced Native Phage Therapy for the Treatment of Lyme Disease and Relapsing Fever: A Retrospective Review of First 14 Months in One Clinic”. I'm assuming that was your clinic. So can you share with us the highlights of what you learned in that 14 months in those 26 patients? What was the success rate?

[01:05:58.00] Scott: Well, the success rate, what we saw, we set up the study, number one I wanted to document how rapidly that the inducing formulas were working, okay. What was the minimum amount of time? Well, with the bio-spectral emission sequencing, it seemed like just four days was really needed, sometimes just three, maximum maybe five sometimes initially.

So it was interesting when I had this epiphany was like November, I believe 19, 2019, on my way to the ILADS conference in Boston. Just picked up a Scientific American magazine at the Nashville airport, just to read on the plane, and there's a story on bacteriophages. I tell you what, my brain was just going, was writing in the margins and underlining and highlighting and making a star and in the margins, I was writing out these initial ideas of like I think my brain pulling from all these different things that I had invented over my career, that if I'd omitted any one of them, I probably couldn't have actually done this and achieved this.

So with the Biospectral Emission Sequencing, according to my test, the infection was gone very rapidly. So when I went to that conference, it's interesting how divine synchronicity of events and things happens, but it was the first time that the RED Laboratory came out talking about as a speaker at the conference, Dr. Louis Teulières who's a medical doctor from, I believe Paris, I think he has clinics in Portugal and maybe Belgium, I'm not sure, England maybe. But anyway, he spoke, and I was like hacking away on my laptop in the conference as I said about my idea, and I looked up I'm like oh my gosh, here's this test, guess what they're using? Borrelia bacteriophages, to determine if you have the infection still.

So there's this debate in all of the Lyme world, are you still infected beyond the antibiotics? And the lab tests up to this point are very insensitive, okay. The Lyme Western blots, they were this gold standard for many years, but it's debatable. Do you have it? Do you not? I mean, there's a high false-negative rate, high false-positive rate, whatever. These are circulating antibodies that may always be in the body, to some degree all the time. So here's the borrelia; it's called a Phelix borrelia phage test.

Now, remember I said that the bacteria caused the bacteria to make up to 5,200 phages, I don't know who counted all those phages, but somebody estimated at least 5,200 phages inside of each bacteria that when they rupture, those 5200 phages go circulating all over the body, seeking out the next borrelia infection bacteria to infect and start the process over.

So what do you think is going to be easier to find? Some spirochete that's not even in the blood very often, it's always tissue bound, like literally, I saw something where it looked like I was drilling into the tissue itself, like a corkscrew. You're going to find that bacteria that are locked up in the tissue on a blood test? I don't think so, not very often, but you're going to find tons of the phages circulating all over the place, easy to find them, because there's so many of them, okay.

So remember, in one milliliter of saliva, there are a hundred billion phages. So in just one fluid ounce, there are three trillion phages, just in one fluid ounce, right? So imagine all of these phages are easy to find, way easier than the bacteria itself. So I was like going, oh my gosh, I'm going to use that test because the phages die four days after the last bacteria is gone, right? Because there's nothing left to replicate them. Like the phages can't just say, oh hey, let's go infect these Staph bacteria, so we can stay alive, or we can keep replicating, no.

Without any more Borrelia bacteria to replicate the Borrelia phages, those phages are dead themselves in four days. So that told me here's this lab test that's highly sensitive, let's take patients and run them through this, get it, the positive right up at the front is what we set up the study to do, and let's take it all the way through, just four days of treatment. Wait at least two weeks; I just gave it like this two-week window from the start to the finish when we draw the blood again, because most patients come to the clinic for two weeks, and see what the results would be.

So we had 20. I think it's 26 people; I don't have the study in front of me, 26 people roughly, that had the positive at the first, right? We had tons of people that it didn't detect it, right? They thought they may have Lyme; they weren't sure. Well, the test didn't show it, didn't mean they didn't have it. But from the infection, the positive test, to getting retested was two weeks, but the treatment was only four days. Out of that, 92% of the people tested as completely negative after just the initial treatments.

I think there was maybe another couple of people that we treated, because it didn't come back. You have this study right there, I think there were four people out of that study that the second test came back negative, and so we added more of the inducers and then retested again, and it was still gone. I mean, it was finally gone, bringing it up to 92 percent.

So that's unheard of; I mean, I had a researcher in Europe that told me, a PhD researcher, say David if all you did was achieve 40%, that would be astronomical. And to be honest, until I ran the numbers, I didn't even know it was that good. But even if I think, like even if you could let's just say okay, well somehow there was something wrong with this lab work, and well, maybe even if you did it five percent, we've opened a knowledge that was unopened prior, that other researchers I pray will be able to run with this and say hey guys, we can actually do this, we don't destroy the body, it won't destroy the friendly flora, you're not having to take these expensive pharmaceuticals, you're not putting a chemical in your body, you cannot be allergic to it, because there's nothing in it to be allergic to.

You can't stimulate a phage you don't actually have in your body. So the energy of all the phages you don't have that are in the remedy, your body just shakes it off, just like any other kind of frequency you come in contact with. You're just simply testing do you have phages or don't you have phages, and they're also parallel to that; they're always testing for the physical bacteria as well, okay. Something like they repeat the test like 12 times for the phages, and they repeat the test for the bacteria; I think four times.

So I mean, you're getting a collective of 16 different lab tests on the same sample of blood, and if it's negative, it's negative. If it's positive still, it's positive still. So there were a lot of people that we saw kind of things that where an interesting phenomenon was we cleared all of the infection that was detectable with the lab test, but then we targeted parasites, which you mentioned earlier.

When the parasites died, now all these infections spill out that were protected by that parasite, like a phage; I just can't imagine a phage is really going to be able to land on the outside of a, let's say, Ascaris lumbricoides, it's a roundworm. It's not going to land on that worm; stick its little hypodermic needle into the worm, which would make its way to the bacteria that reside inside the worm; that makes sense?

[01:15:01.11] Scott: Yes, I mean that's based on Alan MacDonald's work, and I know people Dietrich Klinghardt and you and others will talk about when parasites are present that those should be dealt with very early. So it's kind of an interesting question that I wasn't going to ask. But to maximize the potential of the inducers, might it make sense to first use the parasite inducers even if you don't know for sure the person has the parasite, to be sure that you've addressed that issue first?

[01:15:29.16] Dr. Jernigan: Well, it's so interesting you would ask me that, because it's only, you're inundated, we've been inundated with learning, constantly learning trying to figure out okay, what is doing what? And no two people are the same; no two illnesses are the same. Only recently, like literally in the last month or so, did we kind of start going; you know, maybe we should treat the parasites simultaneously to make sure.

Because it's like do you go after the parasite first? If you only had a two-week window to work with a person, it's going to take a while, maybe for the parasite situation to be done. And again, no one is, to my knowledge, has even postulated that you could target a parasite with a phage, not a bacteriophage, a phage, right? Remember there were mycophages, these are viruses that infect only molds and fungi, yeast and that kind of thing, and there are virophages, and then there, I have never seen paraphage like a parasite phage.

So I tested somebody and treated them just on the hypothetical, and I said and guess what, within five hours, they got this tapeworm to come out, and it was devastating. I mean, I think about it and just kind of a while ago, and of course, my eyes get all twinkly anyway I'm thinking about it because I'm like going I love parasites, because you can't argue, you can't debate that I did what I did with parasites, because you can see them. I mean, the clinic record right now is twelve-and-a-half-foot long tapeworm.

[01:17:14.05] Scott: But it was just spaghetti, right?

[01:17:16.08] Dr. Jernigan: Oh yes, that was just something they, hey, or maybe that was just mutants in the system or something, and oh I could go off on parasite stories up there. But you have to kind of say; it's like man, am I going to do more harm by doing this at this moment or would it be better just target the thing that's causing the problem, and then predictively say hey, when I'm ready to deal with the parasite, deal with the parasite and at that time, make sure that you're also taking something to deal with any infection that's inside of it. And it's really kind of wild with Biospectral Emission Sequencing; the realization is becoming more and more aware as we learn after every single patient, and they call it practicing.

The awareness might be that those parasites maybe even masking any kind of infection signal, which is why we couldn't detect it with our testing. I'm really getting to the point where I think that the parasites can do that. Well, let's just say as many types of bacteria there are in the body, there are tons of parasites in the body. So you might be targeting a big one, but not the worst one. So this is another thing you have to consider, is like goodness, it really becomes this conundrum of just like man, what do you start with first? When do you want to strategically do these different things?

And that's the difference between coming to our center versus maybe, what our plan is to provide these to doctors that are trained to use them correctly, they have to go through our training, and that way we can reach the world with them. We're not going to sell directly to the patient, because they're not going to understand what's going on; they need a doctor to be able to have that training that we're going to give.

[01:19:00.25] Scott: The good thing is 30 years into this, you're still loving it and still passionate about it; I can tell how excited you still get. Are there additional tests that are being developed for phages, either RED Labs or others, to be able to validate this induction of the phages for other organisms like Bartonella or Babesia or others?

[01:19:22.02] Dr. Jernigan: No. Actually, I want to clarify something, because it's a mistaken thing that I hear all the time, I don't hear it, but I see it on the internet, where people say, oh, there's no third-party validation for the RED Laboratory or something like that. There is no third-party regulating agency out there that goes around and verifies things. I mean, this test wasn't created by RED Laboratories; this was created by extremely intelligent scientists at the University of Leicester in England.

It took them, from what I understand, like five years of researching just to develop this test, this one test, and then beyond that, I think it was another three years of actual utilizing it in the test. So to answer your question, yes, there are other tests that are being developed; they're developing one at Leicester University, with Martha Clokie guidance for Bartonella, various types of Bartonella. They've already come out; that isn't out, by the way, yet, but it's predicted to be soon. But they have Rickettsia now, so your Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever-type and Rickettsias and other types of Rickettsia bacteria that's already available, and it's a phage test itself. So I did read research from a researcher in Germany, like a pretty high power researcher that actually developed another phage test and proved it on raw milk to try to find Brucellosis.

So you're going to start seeing this in industry, not just in medicine. They're already developing bacteriophages that can be used in the food industry to keep infections, to keep it under control instead of using chemicals. So I mean, it's really phenomenal; I really think that the classic bacteriophage therapy could still even be blended with my INPT therapy to help drive the bacteriophages to the specific type of bacteria that the patient needs dealing with.

[01:21:27.21] Scott: In mold illness, water damage building, sickness, there is the potential, the concept of colonization from fungal organisms like aspergillus and others. Could we use phage therapy to address fungal colonization, which is otherwise somewhat difficult to treat?

[01:21:47.07] Dr. Jernigan: We started doing that almost simultaneously with the Borrelia, and so once you understand this concept and that it is working and we were just like going oh my gosh, while our patient has mold, let's target that mold, that specific one, that Aspergillus, the Stachybotrys, you name it, the Penicillium, Fusariums, and stuff.

Symptomatically, they got dramatically better very often, very quickly. We have one elderly lady that I'm thinking about that she has COPD, and she has long asthma type symptoms, and she's constantly as a result fighting these mold infections; she'd been in a moldy house environment much of her life. As soon as we addressed these things, her breathing was so much better; the mucus was so much better. I mean, my heart goes out to so many of the people that are dying; I saw a story about a young lady who had cystic fibrosis.

I think it was and died, and I'm just like, oh my gosh. The cool thing about Induced Native Phage Therapy is that it's not classic phage therapy; it's not against the law to use it. I mean, I'm just basically, in the same way, that you're manipulating the body when you take a probiotic, everyone knows about probiotics nowadays. If you have yeast overgrowth, what do we do? We throw down some probiotics sometimes. If you have another kind of overgrowth, let's say C diff or H pylori, you can take various types of probiotics to try to counter that or get the probiotic to kill that organism. So we're not doing something from outside the body in; we're utilizing part of the natural virome.

Now, sometimes, to be honest, I don't know if we're using maybe in stimulating, part of the virome that isn't even native to that type of thing that just kind of goes okay, yes I can go do this and kill this mold for you. So it'll be interesting as the research gets better and better. 

[01:23:51.18] Scott: And where it's also interesting when we talk about addressing fungal colonization even Candida, for example, if you are still getting exposed from your external environment, let's say you've induced the phages, you've significantly reduced or fully eliminated those fungal colonizations, the Candida.

We still have the very likely potential of getting re-exposed to them again, because of our external environment, if we're living in a water-damaged building. So it seems like that's a scenario where similar to your concept about getting re-infected from a new tick, if you had gotten rid of borrelia, for example, that we really have to think about our environment and the possibility of getting re-exposed, which then could lead to another colonization or overgrowth, correct?

[01:24:40.00] Dr. Jernigan: Absolutely. I mean, that's such an important message that the person and the doctor, their team, their healthcare team, whatever it is that they're using, they have to understand that it's also the terrain as they like to say in Europe more with biological medicine, they talk a lot about the terrain.

Well, all they're talking about is don't let your body be a happy home environment for that. If you're in a hot, dark or dank kind of environment, mold is going to grow. If you have the wrong pH in your body, the mold is going to grow; the yeast is going to come back. Everything you eat has just loads of microbes all over them, no matter how much you wash them.

So yes, the cool thing with the Induced Native Phage Therapy is we give your body that opportunity maybe to finally heal without that infection being there, so that when you do get reintroduced to it, you're the one that doesn't get sick. You have, like we all have strep; this is one of the things about antibiotics that I kind of wish people would understand. Is like when I was a kid, your parents would get in big trouble if they didn't let the doctor give you antibiotics for every ear infection and Strep throat. Well, now the journal of American Medical Association has said stop, please stop giving every kid antibiotic for these things, because they realized over all the years that the doctor would prescribe the antibiotic for Strep for seven to ten days.

And in that article, in the Journal Medical Association, they said guess what? Do nothing, and the patient is getting well in seven to ten days. And the thing that used to just get me is the idea that, oh, if we don't give your child this antibiotic, the Strep could go to their heart and kill them, right? Well, did that doctor ever go back and see if he got all the last of the strep? No.

As long as your symptom was better, he said okay, good, and yet we all walk around with Strep all the time, we all have e-coli, we all have a lot of these different microbes, and yet, I haven't had Strep throat in, any time that I can remember back in maybe when I was a kid or something like that, and yet I have strep. It is the integrity of the structural components of your body, and the functional components of your body that create lasting health; it's not killing all the bugs.

But when the bugs have gotten out of control, then yes, you need to get rid of those; when the tapeworm is 30 feet long, and it's gobbling up all your nutrients, yes, you need to get rid of that. If you have mold and it's just gone crazy, yes, get rid of it.

[01:27:26.15] Scott: In the mold and Lyme arena, there is a lot of discussion around eradication of MARCoNS or multiple antibiotic-resistant coagulase-negative staph; it has been difficult, many treatments have failed, it does not seem to be easy to clear.

Many practitioners have stopped focusing on it in part because eradication just doesn't seem realistic, and also, it maybe is not as much of a contributor to some people's condition as was previously thought. But I'm wondering if you've explored the induction of the phages using INPT to address the colonization of MARCoNS in the sinuses, in the dental area, is that a possibility?

[01:28:10.09] Dr. Jernigan: Yes, there is no bug you can ask us if we haven't already addressed. It's a lot of fun when you're dealing with something you can visually see. So like as an example, kind of like the MARCoNS is the MRSA type of staph infection. And I had a patient of mine actually that was bald, and for ten years, he would get almost like a flesh-eating staph infection that was no longer reacting to any kind of antibiotics or essential oils; he tried everything. Triple antibiotic ointments, I mean everything, and it would turn into like a horn he would call it, like it would just literally stick up. And when I saw him, it was just angry around the edges, I mean about the size of the silver dollar, and I was like, yes let's just target that, the types of infections then it was, and this is a cool understanding.

It's almost never ever just one type of infection; it's always mixed infections. Like so, people get all into like whatever the doctor said it was. Yes, there was MRSA there, but there was also different variations of Strep and various types of staff as well in that infection. So I targeted all of them, all at the same time swoop, and by the next day, instead of it being red and looking at the top, it was just pink, which is a wonderful sign; that's where the body is already starting to win.

And within a week or two, the scab just fell off, and it just healed. Now, the tissue had been damaged in the same spot for ten years, and about every three months when he was under stress of some sort, it would pop up again; he could feel it coming. But he wouldn't wait for it to get really bad now that he knew that there was something we could do, right? So every time he'd come in, it wasn't always the same infection it was like various other types of bacteria jumped in on that damaged spot.

I kind of make the analogy of like a tree, it's where your lawnmower damaged the bark that the virus infects the tree and creates that big knot on the side of the tree, that big bowl sometimes they create. Well, it's the same in your body, where the tissue is already damaged is where the microbes are going to go to. So we kept killing it, and now it's been, I think he came back three times total, and now it hasn't been back in like at least a year.

[01:30:40.22] Scott: So that leads me to another question that I was not planning to ask, but we know that Morgellons, for example, has a Borrelia component, a Bartonella component, and H. pylori component, many things. Have you had any clinical improvement using INPT in Morgellons to date?

[01:30:57.23] Dr. Jernigan: Well, we can do what we do and get rid of the infections, and I wish I could say that just miraculously made all the Morgellons go away, but it didn't, because I'm like oh wow, I got rid of the infections. So I have to look at that and just kind of go okay well yes, there's Borrelia that's there, there's Bartonella that's there, there are all these things that are there, but when we get rid of that, it didn't really get rid of the Morgellons, so there must be something else in there. There are other components that we haven't identified yet, that we're working on. We do have a case that we're working on.

[01:31:37.24] Scott: So one of my observations over the years has been that viruses do play a reasonably significant role in chronic illnesses. Epstein Barr Virus, Herpes Zoster, I feel like they're overlooked that usually people test for them and say oh, that's just something you had in the past, we don't need to do anything about it, that's not really my perspective, I do think that the activation of these herpetic viruses do stress the system. And so I'm wondering if you're using these viral phages to address those chronic herpetic activations?

[01:32:13.27] Dr. Jernigan: This is a question that I have not even written about, because I was so focused, I have to prove one thing first to the world, and that was that we could actually do it even for one type of bacteria, or all of the different types of Lyme and Relapsing Fever bacteria. Now that I've published that, I feel fairly confident to be able to say yes, we have been playing with that. I mean, once you understand what this will do, it doesn't take that much brainpower to realize it's like hey, let's target Herpes, let's target the Epstein Barr Virus, let's do all these different things.

So we have two or three patients that came to us already knowing they had very high Epstein Barr titers, and they had the PCR testing, and it was very high and things like that. They agreed, just as part of the research study that we were doing to say sure, let's see what we can do. Well, we treated it, and it was funny; I think it was the second gentleman misunderstood us. We said take the remedy for three days, and then you can wait a while and go get tested.

Well, he took the remedy for one day, no two days and went to the lab on the third day, and it was already gone, and we couldn't find it either, and his symptoms got better, and I was like, wow, dude, that's pretty crazy. Because in the research, I think there's only about one type of article I've ever seen that says that they found, I think it's called a sputnik, and I think they called it, it's a tiny virus that infects another virus that they found in I think algae or something like that.

So this is so new, and so, we just open up the possibility, right? So we have now two or three people that were that way where we treated, trying to cause a virus in the body to go attack the Epstein Barr Virus specifically. I think we also have a Human Herpesvirus 6 one and maybe Cytomegaly that we targeted. Follow-up testing showed it was gone.

[01:34:21.13] Scott: Might the induction of phages be a solution to the current worldwide pandemic?

[01:34:28.08] Dr. Jernigan: I think that someday, the world will allow that to happen if everything continues in the trajectory that it's going. As we've witnessed, it's been very difficult for any doctor to even suggest an alternative solution to these problems.

The scientific community is tightly controlled, and I think it's interesting because people say you're not even a doctor, and I'm like I've heard that my entire life, where it was like going to college, they said well, why don't you go be a real doctor? Not understanding that we're all trained the same as a medical doctor now, as Doctors of Chiropractic medicine, we have our own specialties and things.

But I am so blessed that I was on the outside, because I have always only dealt with the patients that no one else knew what to do with, so I couldn't continue doing the things that didn't work, nor do I want to continue doing things that aren't working in my clinic, right? So I was constantly innovating. And so I love the fact that I'm not a bench scientist, because I get to actually treat people; I'm glad that I'm not an MD.

Nothing against MDs, but I just have this whole different view of what health is and how to achieve it. I'm not a big fan of cookbook doctoring and stuff, but I would like to think at some point when bacteriophage therapy progresses beyond and becomes more and more standard, even the classic type. More and more the standard, instead of drug therapy that they'll start looking at mycophage therapy and virophage therapy, and that you could talk about it in the open.

[01:36:15.20] Scott: Many conditions that we think of as autoimmune like Rheumatoid Arthritis or MS or Ankylosing Spondylitis, are likely triggered by various microbes. So are you using phages in what are perceived to be autoimmune conditions and seeing resolution of that dysregulated immune response?

[01:36:37.12] Dr. Jernigan: Always, yes. We're always trying to get that. And the cool thing about phages is we're now even going way beyond this and saying okay, well, and I didn't create this, by the way, but once I read the research, I was like hmm, they're using E. coli bacteriophages to target beta-amyloid plaque in the brain. Now imagine with Alzheimer's in such a big thing, and that's plaquing on the brain, MS, plaquing on the brain and stuff, and it's just interesting, so I decided well, let's see if I could actually cause phages to target that. And we do have one case that got the imaging, and there was less plaquing on the brain, and it was like wow.

So imagine what's the limit of phages? Could we actually ask the phages through our testing and sequencing, to go do strategic biochemical things in the body, to help the body maybe manufacture an enzyme that it didn't normally, that it's like has some mutation on the genetics making it where your body isn't doing something. Maybe to target toxins I've already used phages for that, works pretty good. Now could you call it a virophage, most likely, but it's not really going after a virus when you're sending it to help the body destroy a toxin. It's just fascinating where is the limit with this.

[01:38:02.26] Scott: So you talked about the potential for sexual partners to pass Borrelia and other organisms. We know that often times, when treating parasites, that it's important to treat everyone in the household so that people are not getting re-infected. When we're using these phage inducers, do you recommend commonly that sexual partners or even other people living in the same household do the same thing at the same time to minimize that potential for re-infection?

[01:38:32.15] Dr. Jernigan: Well, you have to remember, to actually have this treatment, you have to enter into our program. So the spouse is usually not under the IRB research study, so we have never sold these remedies to anybody; they're actually only for people in the research study.

So we are setting up production and distribution at this time, and hopefully, within the next five or six months, we'll actually start providing this to doctors, and it would be my advice, yes, that anybody, that sexual partners should both be taking it not just the one that's sick. But yes, that would be very wise.

[01:39:16.05] Scott: So this is the new company that you mentioned earlier, PhagenCorp, lots of information there that people can look at. So the intent is that sometime in the near future, practitioners that could be trained by you would then be able to use these with their patients in their practices, to access these technologies where they can then take these inducers in an oral format is my understanding, correct?

[01:39:41.15] Dr. Jernigan: Yes.

[01:39:42.14] Scott: And is there any idea about how costly doing that type of therapy might be? Are we talking hundreds of dollars? Thousands of dollars? Where do we think that's going to fall?

[01:39:54.08] Dr. Jernigan: Well, it depends on how long the doctor keeps the patient on the formulas. But right now, the thought is it'll probably be under a hundred dollars. Now you keep this in perspective, that how many thousands and thousands maybe even hundreds of thousands of you start taking IV antibiotics with the doctor visits and everything calculated, months and months of suffering, horrible Herxheimer reactions.

I mean, the cost to humanity is just astronomical, comparatively to something that maybe wow, that's expensive I go yes. But basically, it's gone so fast that you're not having to take it over and over. We're not talking remission; remember, we're talking the complete elimination of an infection. Remission is where you didn't kill it all, and therefore it can come back, with the right or the wrong, however, you want to look at it, environment inside of your body the stressors in your body, the infection can come back from our emission, everyone's like well, I'm happy for a mission, I was like you shouldn't be.

It's just a pause, I know you want to have a pause, but at some point, we need to talk about the Herxheimer reactions, because understanding why there's no Herxheimer phage therapy, that was something that we had to learn, and that's actually in our article so if people want to go to that. Either the clinic website or the PhagenCorp website, you can read the entire article and explains in that article exactly why you don't have the horrible Herxheimer reactions.

[01:41:21.05] Scott: And so the idea is that practitioners might start being able to access these in the next several months, correct?

[01:41:27.20] Dr. Jernigan: Yes, within the next six months. 

[01:41:30.15] Scott: Beautiful. Would you say that to date, that this is the most impactful technology that you have created? I know you've created a lot of cool things, so is this the one that you really feel the proudest of?

[01:41:43.01] Dr. Jernigan: Yes, absolutely. I mean, like you said, I'm proud of a lot of the cool things that I've done and created, and they stand on their own feet. But everyone, I think every man, maybe some women are into instant gratification. So as a doctor, if you know, you can win, if you know what you know that you can do, it's a whole different reality, but it's also going to be a whole different reality for doctors that they don't know anything else to do, but sit behind the desk and look at a lab test and then go out the next round of antibiotics.

They're going to have to figure out, okay, well, how do I economically survive if I get all my patients well rapidly. Well, again, it's the termites in the house; most of these patients that are finding these doctors are chronically sick, so that doctor can spend a whole lot more time instead of trying to kill the bacteria, to actually trying to heal the body itself. It would be a good move for medicine in that anyway.

[01:42:41.09] Scott: Yes. When you look at what we as humans are doing to our environment, I doubt there will be a time in the near future when there aren't enough sick people that need support.

[01:42:51.26] Dr. Jernigan: I agree. So I hope that's how they view it, and it's interesting to see the resistance that sometimes even from the natural realm is being thrown at us, because it's like how dare you say you can do what no one else has ever done, how dare you innovate almost is the attitude I feel like I'm getting sometimes. But we've also had the other side where really credible people are saying, wow, you realize you're going to win the Nobel prize in mind, that'd be kind of cool, but I highly doubt it.

[01:43:23.09] Scott: I could say I knew you when.

[01:43:24.22] Dr. Jernigan: I knew you when, yes.

[01:43:27.00] Scott: So my last question is the same for every guest, and that is what are some of the key things that you do on a daily basis in support of your own health?

[01:43:33.20] Dr. Jernigan: Well, I live a very balanced life. I make sure that my nutrition is up, that I get good grounding outside. I mean, my whole house is an exercise in creating the most healthy environment. I have zero toxins in the house, we have no fragrances in any of the products we painted all of our walls in the rooms we sleep in, and some of the rooms that we're in a lot of the time with the EMF blocking paints, we have the windows have the films.

I mean, we're just very aware of the effects of 5G is going to have, if it's going to have, it will have being emotionally stable at all times, it's kind of remaining unchanged by our circumstances, that's where your truths really get tested is when you're under-challenged. Well, it's not who you are when things are good, that shows you the most of how you're living your truths. It's who you are when you're being challenged.

And that should not have to change just because you're under a potentially stressful situation, and those stressors stress everything. It's like you can't pluck one thread of a spiderweb that it doesn't vibrate the entire web. It's the same with the human body. If you're overeating something, if you're over contemplating something, if you allow yourself to worry, doubt, fear all those different things, then you're plucking the web in a way that's going to cause illness. I've never been a doctor that was like blogging and stuff, and there's nothing wrong with it, but it's like educating patients and saying hey, go buy this.

I'm more about if you read my hundreds of blogs, it was more about how do you live that balanced life, and when you get out of balance, in my clientele, it's way beyond the point where I could say hey, just take this and you'll be well in the morning. Sometimes you just have to come to somebody like me who actually has the tools and the skills, and like in every single treatment room, there's over 4,000 different remedies, every treatment room.

So we have what is it, six treatment rooms, I think? So you imagine that's 4,000, that's 24,000 remedies always at the doctor's disposal to test your specific body adjunctively still with the bio-spectral emission sequencing, to figure out exactly what you need because I would never be able to guess. And by the way, you can't think your way to activate phages; I don't believe. Somebody may say, well, anything you can think you can do, and I'm like kind of going yes, it's so super flipping complex even to put these formulas together that it's just, I just have never seen it either. That anybody that says you're not doing what you're doing, I'm like okay, name something that could get rid of the infections in four days, and prove it what the most sensitive lab test on the planet at this point.

[01:46:37.23] Scott: I've been fortunate to have been to your prior clinic, and look forward to the day that I can come visit you at your new clinic. But I've seen your treatment rooms, and was really amazing to see all of the different things that you have accessible there when you're working with your patients.

Followed your work now for well over a decade; I just want to thank you for your contributions, for everything that you're doing to try to minimize the struggle and the suffering of others, and thank you so much for being here today to share this really exciting topic. I'm so much looking forward to watching over the next several months and few years as people start having access to these tools, how that impacts their lives in a positive way. So thank you so much, Dr. Jernigan.

[01:47:20.00] Dr. Jernigan: Well, thank you, I respect you so much. I want you to know you're the first podcaster that I've agreed to do a podcast with on this topic.

[01:47:28.08] Scott: Wow, that's awesome. Thank you.

[01:47:29.22] Dr. Jernigan: So I respect you and everything you've done to the Lyme community, so much. I just appreciate you and support you in every way I can.

[01:47:38.16] Scott: Thank you, Dr. Jernigan, again. Be well.

[01:47:40.12] To learn more about today's guest, visit BiologixCenter.com, or PhagenCorp.com.

[01:48:04.00] Thanks for listening to today's episode. If you're enjoying the show, please leave a positive rating or review, as doing so will help the show reach a broader audience. To follow me on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, or MeWe, you can find me there as Better Health Guy.

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