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In this episode, you will learn about heavy metals, metal allergy, and Type IV delayed hypersensitivity responses. 

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About My Guest

My guest for this episode is Shari Guess.  Shari Guess almost died from severe allergies due to metal hypersensitivity after a litany of orthopedic surgeries, all performed within a few short years, which implanted a large amount of metal and dental hardware in her body.  At the time she got sick, she was working as a full-time realtor and attending college, studying pre-med, hoping to eventually become a Physician’s Assistant.  After being bedridden for nearly 3 years and feverishly researching everything she could to help find out the cause of her severe systemic symptoms, she had a lucky break in the case and was able to connect the dots with all of her symptoms. Suddenly everything made sense!  Shari has undergone numerous surgeries to date to remove and revise hardware. These surgeries have restored her to near-full health as the symptoms related to her metal allergies began to subside by leaps and bounds immediately following the procedures.  While in the thick of her illness, due to a compromised immune system, she also acquired Lyme Disease, Alpha Gal Syndrome, and several other autoimmune diseases.  Shari is blessed to have been able to put almost all of that behind her, experiencing near complete relief from the symptoms of Lyme and co-infections after LymeStop treatment in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, along with the restoration of her immune system through the removal of the metals and implementing limbic system retraining.

Key Takeaways

  • What is a Type IV hypersensitivity reaction?
  • What is the difference between a Type IV hypersensitivity reaction to heavy metals and a mast cell reaction?
  • Is there an overlap between metal hypersensitivity and autoimmunity?
  • What role do medical implants play in triggering metal hypersensitivity?
  • Can IUDs or hernia mesh trigger type IV hypersensitivity reactions?
  • Might metal allergy play a role in Stiff Person Syndrome?
  • Should titanium dioxide in supplements be avoided?
  • Might heavy metals lead to EMF hypersensitivity or EHS?
  • Is gadolinium toxigenic or immunogenic or both?
  • What is MELISA testing?
  • What is patch testing?
  • Can detoxification of heavy metals be done too aggressively?
  • Is there a place for immune modulation in dealing with metal allergy?
  • How might tools like LDN, LDA, or LDI be helpful?
  • What is the role of the low nickel diet in metal allergy?

Connect With My Guest


Interview Date

January 10, 2024


Transcript Disclaimer: Transcripts are intended to provide optimized access to information contained in the podcast.  They are not a full replacement for the discussion.  Timestamps are provided to facilitate finding portions of the conversation.  Errors and omissions may be present as the transcript is not created by someone familiar with the topics being discussed.  Please Contact Me with any corrections.  


[0:00:01] ANNOUNCER: Welcome to BetterHealthGuy Blogcasts, empowering your better health. And now, here's Scott, your BetterHealthGuy.

The content of this show is for informational purposes only and is not intended to diagnose, treat, or cure any illness or medical condition. Nothing in today's discussion is meant to serve as medical advice or as information to facilitate self-treatment. As always, please discuss any potential health-related decisions with your own personal medical authority.

[00:00:35] SCOTT: Hello, everyone. And welcome to episode 195 of the BetterHealthGuy Blogcasts series. Today's guest is Shari Guess. And the topic of the show is Heavily Metalled.

Shari Guess almost died from severe allergies due to metal hypersensitivity after a litany of orthopedic surgeries all performed within a few short years, which implanted a large amount of metal and dental hardware in her body. 

At the time she got sick, she was working as a full-time realtor and attending college studying pre-med hoping to eventually become a physician's assistant. After being bedridden for nearly 3 years and feverishly researching everything she could to help find out the cause of her severe systemic symptoms, she had a lucky break in the case and was able to connect the dots with all of her symptoms. Suddenly, everything made sense. 

Shari has undergone numerous surgeries to date to remove and revise hardware. These surgeries have restored her to near full health as the symptoms related to her metal allergies began to subside by leaps and bounds immediately following the procedures. 

While in the thick of her illness due to a compromised immune system, she also acquired Lyme disease, alpha-gal syndrome, and several other autoimmune diseases. Shari is blessed to have been able to put almost all of that behind her experiencing near complete relief from the symptoms of Lyme and co-infections after a LymeStop treatment in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho along with the restoration of her immune system through the removal of the metals and implementing limbic system retraining. 

And now my interview with Shari Guess. 


[00:02:11] SCOTT: While I have had a number of podcasts that briefly touched on the topic of heavy metals as a contributor to chronic illness, this is the first show that I've ever done dedicated to discussing heavy metals. I'm excited today to have Shari Guess who's lived through her own serious health challenges that ultimately led to a seldom-discussed understanding of how heavy metals contribute to chronic illness and how they impact the body. Thanks so much for being here today, Shari.

[00:02:38] SHARI: Thank you so much for having me. Super excited.

[00:02:41] SCOTT: First, let's talk about your personal health journey. Your own chronic illness resulting from heavy metals, from Lyme disease, and co-infections, and all of the other contributors. Give us some insight as to how your own journey led to the passion that you clearly have today to help educate others and provide them with information to improve the quality of their lives.

[00:03:05] SHARI: Okay. Absolutely. It's a bit of a story. Aren't they all? But basically, I'll try to hit all the bullet points. I have always loved science and healthcare. One of the root problems has always seemed to be the metal allergy. But we didn't come upon that for quite a number of years. It didn't become apparent until my allergy bucket was so full that it was overflowing. 

Basically, I have a history of earring and jewelry sensitivities. I thought that was normal. I know a million people that have had that growing up. Something always happened or hurt. I even won an award for that at one time. And we have kind of now a working hypothesis of an unspecified connective tissue disease. Could be EDS. By the way, connective tissue disease is predisposed to metal hypersensitivity. That's a cool thing. 

At age 40, my thyroid tanked completely and I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's. Incidentally, one of the first systems to be affected in people that are affected with metal allergies is the thyroid, especially women. Things most people easily recovered from, it took me a long time and usually resulted in surgery for me. Crazy. 

Almost all surgeries resulted in functional improvement and benefits. I had a few small surgeries. And then four pivotal surgeries between 2014 and 2015, which were a hysterectomy, a lumbar fusion, a cervical fusion, and a shoulder repair. And all of these implanted metals. 

In 2016, six months after my cervical fusion onset, severe insomnia. Super severe insomnia. No amount of anything. I could take NyQuil. You give me any concoction. Nothing worked. I was not sleeping. In 2016 I started having really severe issues with cardiac sinus rhythm and POTS symptoms. I would stand up, my heart rate would go to 156 beats per minute. I couldn't support weight of my neck without a neck brace and had to wear a neck brace for six months. The hard collar neck brace. And nobody knew why. All my tests were normal. 

In 2017, I developed super severe temperature dysregulation. We're talking shivering. Shivering in 78-degree weather. Psych trouble with no prior psych history. Shooting, stabbing, cramping pains where I could no longer walk, sit, or stand. I also felt like my brain was burning. And I started having many seizures. And I was having new symptoms weekly. And basically, I told my husband that something was eating my body. 

In February 2017, I have a really gifted integrative professional provider who's known me forever and my whole family. He clinically diagnosed me with Lyme, POTS. I went to an LLMD, which diagnosed me with Lyme, Babesia, Bartonella, EBV, Mycoplasma, Chlamydia, pneumonia, and Brucella. My testing was through DNA Connexions. Was positive for Bartonella. Positive labs for Mycoplasma pneumonia, EBV IGM, and Brucella. Negative for Lyme. But the kicker is my husband, who had no symptoms at all, was CDC-positive. I mean, really? 

We started treating with PICC line antibiotics. Very minimal improvement. Herbs could not tolerate anything. Herx. Super high Herxer. Ozone, same thing. I was better able to tolerate for a short time essential oils internally. And I had minimal improvement. And then, all of a sudden, out of nowhere, no history, started breaking out in hives everywhere. And we'll get to that in a minute. Other treatments, I've done IV ozone. More IV therapy. Acupuncture, infrared sauna, lymphatic drainage, chiropractic, myofascial. All the things. 

December 2017, I stumbled on a Rife machine. A GB4000, for anybody who cares. And I could finally tolerate Rife. Starting with channels at 30 seconds. I mean, the biggest wimp you've ever seen. But it actually started making a difference. And I treated for three years and improved about 35%. I was able to get out of bed a little more. I was able to function a little more. Still a litany of symptoms. 

And until 2021, Rife was the treatment for me. Super slow, but really continued improvement. I was able to run channels for five minutes, 10 minutes that, again, I started at 30 seconds. And I was improving. 

In 2019, I got a double whammy and was infected with Alpha-gal due to tick bites from two nymph ticks. And that was a slam dunk. I am not anaphylactic. Thankfully. But by 2020, I was no longer fully bedridden. I did need surgery for orthopedic issues. I have them. They're underlying. And that is a thing and has always been a thing. 

I wound up having two SI joint fusion surgeries. Those are the big joints in your pelvis. They made me mechanically better and physically worse. And by the time I got to my second SI joint fusion, and this is right around the time COVID came on, I was getting, like I said, physically worse. I thought maybe I have COVID. Just, "Oh, great. I'm going to have long COVID now. And nobody – I'm not testing positive." 

But we had a complete epiphany by the time I had my second SI joint fusion surgery. And this is where it all starts to come together. I had put on – I had noticed a correlation after the second SI joint fusion surgery, of my pain and symptoms with histamine, with outdoor pollen, with high-histamine foods. And the kicker, the thing that was the epiphany is I put on jewelry that I'd worn for 20 years of my entire life with no problem. I can always wear surgical 92.5 sterling silver. And I broke out in a rash like that. It was immediate. And I tasted metal in my mouth. And it was literally at that second that I knew that I was allergic to my hardware. 

Basically, what started from there is I went and got Lymphocyte Transformation Testing, which we'll talk about. Came back very much off the charts for nickel and a lesser allergy to molybdenum and iron. Took it to my spine surgeon who did my first hardware removal in approximately September of 2020. He took 10 pieces of hardware out of my lumbar spine. And it was hardware that had nickel and cobalt in it. We had gotten the chemical composition from the manufacturer. 

And in the OR, when I woke up, I had 60% less pain in my legs. I could wear – yeah, it was a wow. I could wear jewelry again immediately. I could eat high-histamine foods again immediately. And I could go outside on high-pollen days. I mean, it was just literally a slam dunk. We'll talk more about the evidence that we had for that going on. 

Basically, I will take a breath here in a minute, but 2021, I got LymeStop treatment, which, within a year, literally completely resolved most of the Lyme symptoms and coinfection symptoms. I can tell you, almost today, I don't have one. 

In 2021, I had a cervical fusion revised. More improvement. It was a non-union. They revised it with hardware I wasn't allergic to. It healed. 2021, I began DNRS. Again, continued to heal. 2022, removed nickel-containing foods from my diet. 2022, removed gallbladder clips. More improvements still. 2023, removed surgical hardware from my shoulder and my cervical fusion hardware. And then my podcast was born, Heavily Metalled. And it's basically everything brought me to this point. 

And when you go on this journey, you have to tell others. I had a desire to go to medical school but it became apparent that this was my calling. I had past experience as a journalist, which prepared me for work in the podcast realm. 

I will add that when most people think of heavy metals, and I'm excited to talk to you about this, they're thinking more of the toxigenic effects and not allergy. And we're talking metal allergy. Type I and type IV. And I'm excited to talk about that. 

[00:11:33] SCOTT: We have some things that we've both done. I did LymeStop as well. And I've had Dr. Tony Smith on the podcast. And value his work. And DNRS as well. Had Annie Hopper on the podcast. And I think that's an incredible system also. We'll get into those a bit more as well. 

When most people think of heavy metals, to your point, they're thinking about the toxigenic effects and not so much the immunological effects. Meaning that we know that metals are toxic, but we don't often consider that we can also have metal allergy or immunoreactivity that our immune system itself can be triggering a lot of the symptoms, a lot of the inflammation that we're having in the body. I mean, your story is incredible with getting those metals out and seeing so many of your symptoms improve. Talk to us at a high level about metal allergy. These type IV hypersensitivity reactions that we can have to metals in our body.

[00:12:30] SHARI: Well, metal allergy, I'm so excited to bring this to your listeners. Because metal allergy just might be one of the biggest elephants in the room. And providers and patients alike don't have it on their radar. I personally anticipate that the discussion is going to be as common as the current discussions around gluten within about 10 years. I think it's that significant. 

Doctors are taught Type I or contact metal hypersensitivity in school. They are not taught type IV systemic allergies. Systemic Nickel Allergy Syndrome, or SNAS, is a type IV delayed hypersensitivity that is cell-mediated. It's T cell-mediated and antigen-driven. And most doctors are not familiar with the concept that a type IV systemic reaction to metal is a possibility. 

Many patients have heard about it and bring it up to their physicians. And they're dismissed and gaslit over it. But so many of my followers and new friends had firsthand experiences that prove that it's a very real and very significant issue. 

Let me kind of explain for even some of the medical providers what a type IV delayed hypersensitivity reaction is in the context of metal allergies. Because that's really important. Basically, it starts with an antigen-presenting cell or a dendrite which grabs nickel and kind of brings it in. 

The common thought was that an antigen had to be a protein. But an acquaintance of mine kind of described it in a way that was pretty helpful. He basically said that metal forms an unnatural bond, it's a little bit technical, with a sulfide group on an otherwise normally-placed cell protein, which literally changes the shape of the cell. 

Scavengers are moving throughout the body looking for foreign bodies and think that this new shape of one cell or an enzyme is actually a foreign invader and it begins to attack and the inflammatory cascade is born. 

Basically, nickel binds to a protein – the antigen-presenting cell. Takes it. Hands it to a T helper cell. The T helper cell decides it doesn't look right and prepares to go to war if it comes back. Hands it to a T memory cell that teaches it to all its buddies. And then once it's presented with an implant that leeches the metal out on the regular, the T memory cell releases cytokines. Starts the inflammatory cascade and keeps it going.

And, basically, if the reserve army gets enough of a signal, they all come out releasing their cytokines. And this process takes some time within the body. Hence, the delayed component of the hypersensitivity reaction. 

We're finding in the case of implants, the inflammation can present weeks, months and even a year later as the chronic stimulus fans the flame. We're finding that it's not just the larger orthopedic implants that are to blame. It's smaller surgical implants also, such as surgical clips, staples, biopsy markers, permanent retainers, tubal ligation clips, the Essure permanent sterilization device, IUDs. We already know about some of the problems with dental implants. 

And one of the tragedies here is that, in many routine surgeries, such as a cholecystectomy, or a gallbladder surgery, vasectomy, appendectomy, tubal ligation, biopsies, a lot of times the patients are not told about the implantation of the foreign body. Nor are they pre-screen for metal hypersensitivity before the surgery. They don't think to say, "Hey, I've had this little earring or jewelry thing my whole life." 

And these small, teeny devices are implanted under the phrase of standard of care in the surgical consent. And there's no plan to identify or deal with the reaction. No plan in place to remove the device if a reaction occurs. And surgical hardware in the US is routinely left in the body when many device manufacturers themselves recommend removal after bone or surgical area is healed and it no longer serves a purpose. 

And kind of a global problem is that surgeons know how to put these devices in. They're quick and easy. They take less time. But they're not trained how to remove the device or even told in cases that it's possible to remove the device. It's not happening. 

And then furthermore, neither doctors or patients are understanding critical details such as the fact as these little clips. There's no such thing as pure titanium when it comes to implants. The FDA does not require that trace elements are listed as a constitutional element. The titanium in surgical settings always is an alloy. And these trace alloys can cause reactions in very sensitive people like me. 

There's no such thing as inert when it comes to a foreign body. There is always an insult with various degrees of reactivity. Some less. Some more. Even if there's no allergy, there is degradation and byproducts of that. And basically, the whole system is broken. 

But please don't think I'm anti-physician, or implants, or the establishment. Because I'm not at all. It's just that metal is not going away and surgery is often needed. So are biopsies. So are implants. But we can do better with our education and our solutions surrounding them. And I'm just excited to explore it. It's more than just about metal hardware and implants. 

In the case of food and a nickel allergy, if one's allergic to nickel, ingesting foods with a diet high in nickel with no other implanted nickel can cause massive pain and systemic symptoms. Who has ever, until recently, heard about nickel in food? And there are over 50 symptoms. 

At the height of my particular clinical picture, I had all but five symptoms. And the reaction occurs four to six hours after ingestion. And sometimes, in my case, the next day. And this is one of the things that makes it harder to identify. It's the bucket analogy. If our metal bucket is full, sensitivity is heightened. Even metals in the environment such as our Stanley or Yeti water bottles, Berkey water filters, stainless steel cookware, flatware, all those things can leech metals into our food and water. And these teeny, teeny, tiny amounts that wouldn't affect a flea can cause reactivity and help overflow the bucket.

[00:18:51] SCOTT: I'm super excited that you reached out to share this topic. I first learned about metal allergy as well as the MELISA testing that we're going to talk about around 2006 from Dr. Dietrich Klinghardt. But it isn't something that I have deeply explored. And you clearly have a lot of passion for it and a lot of knowledge. And so, I'm happy that you're here to share with our audience. 

Symptomatically, is there any difference between the symptoms of metal hypersensitivity and, let's say, Lyme disease or mold illness? Are they essentially the same symptoms? Or are there any ways we can distinguish or differentiate metal hypersensitivity from other contributors to chronic illness? Other things filling the bucket as you mentioned? How much chronic pain could be driven by metal allergy? And what percentage of the population do we think may have metal allergy? 

[00:19:43] SHARI: Such great questions. Many of these symptoms can present in very similar ways if not exactly the same. Each metal allergy case is totally different. Many have autoimmunity qualities. And a lot of my colleagues have seen a number of patients who have been diagnosed with Lyme disease and they're undergoing treatment but symptoms did not improve very much. 

I personally think the distinguishing factor is this, patients who are diagnosed with metal hypersensitivity in addition to chronic infections. Then they remove metal from the body, the diet, and the environment, they notice significant improvement and massive gains in health and functionality. This to me seems to point toward the mechanism of the metal allergy as perhaps one of several root causes. 

And many times, this root cause is addressed, the pressure on the immune system is lessened and chronic infections such as Lyme and company are healed by our body. Our bodies are made to heal. You know that. Yeah, there's a lot. We can talk about percentages and numbers here as we get a little further on. But it's significant. 

In regards to how much pain is driven by metal allergy, I can speak to my own personal experience. For me, it was about 90%. As a lay person that deals with a metal-allergic population of about 20,000-plus followers, my evidence is obviously going to be anecdotal. But I talk to a lot of people. And I'm estimating 50% of the people I talk to with chronic pain have a history of past metal reactions and have bodies full of metal or diets containing some of the highest nickel foods. Did you want to talk about the percentage of population that I think has a metal allergy? 

[00:21:33] SCOTT: Yeah. Absolutely. 

[00:21:34] SHARI: I'm just going to use US numbers alone. Literature shows that approximately 15% to 20% of the population is allergic to nickel. In the US, that would be about 68 million people of the current population. Of that percentage, it's estimated that 3% of that population is going to be systemically allergic. If we're using the US numbers, we're talking approximately 2 million or six patients out of 100. 

[00:22:04] SCOTT: When we say systemically allergic, is that the type IV hypersensitivity reaction as compared to the contact allergy that's more the type I? 

[00:22:14] SHARI: Correct.

[00:22:15] SCOTT: Yeah. Okay. Perfect.

[00:22:16] SHARI: Yeah. And you can have both. I have both. That's a big number. Six out of 100.

[00:22:22] SCOTT: You mentioned that one of the clues could be reactions to jewelry. Are there others? Other sources of metal that commonly come into contact where people might have a reaction? Maybe metal glasses, or underwire bras, or anything else that might be a clue that we should more deeply look into the potential for these type IV hypersensitivity reactions? 

[00:22:44] SHARI: Right. Jewelry reactions. Those little ear infections. If you're chronically infected with earrings, certain types of metals, jeans snaps, watchbands, eyeglasses, IBS symptoms with certain foods. We'll get into that as we talk more about nickel-containing foods in the diet. But the reaction is delayed. So, that gets to be a little harder.

[00:23:07] SCOTT: We know that metals can trigger mast cells, which can all also lead to inflammation, to symptoms in the body. Is there an overlap between the type IV hypersensitivity reactions and a mast cell activation triggered by metals? Or are these reactions distinct or different in some way? And do those with metal allergy seem to benefit from a lower histamine diet? 

[00:23:32] SHARI: There's definitely overlap. It's all part of one big inflammatory reaction. And it's kind of a question of what came first. The chicken or the egg? And, really, does it matter? It's just all there. 

Most medical professionals that I've spoken with have not been able to differentiate between the mechanism of action regarding one versus the other. They just kind of realize that they often go hand-in-hand. 

In my case, I believe my MCAS was secondary to the metal allergy. As I lowered my metal-allergic burden, the mast cells seem to be less activated and much, much more stable. I personally have not done anything to directly stabilize or focus on mast cells other than removing the metal from my body, my diet, and the environment. This may not be the same for all. But I've seen this pattern repeated in many others. 

I would say yes. As far as the histamine overflowing the bucket and the low-histamine diet. In general, of course, every person is different. And every case is different. Every person's body is different. Like I mentioned, in my particular case, case I have both type I and type IV sensitivities to metal. The type I reaction has been more associated closely with histamine. And I have absolutely benefited from a lower histamine diet. 

As I've improved, reduced the metal and the burden on my body, I've been able to handle foods with more histamine. Again, it depends on the body burden. If I have more metal in my body at a given time, I'm more sensitive to high-histamine foods and outdoor pollen, for example. If I have less metal in my body, then I'm less sensitive. If I'm highly sensitized in a given period and it rains, there's less pollen in the air, I can eat a higher histamine diet. If it's summer, there's less pollen in the air, I can usually eat higher histamine foods. If it's spring pollen season, sometimes I have to go on an ultra-low-histamine diet. It's all really a balance and a bit of a dance. 

And as I mentioned, the histamine was one of the ways I was able to finally figure out that I had a metal hypersensitivity issue. The bucket analogy definitely applies. And we talked about, at the height of my affectation with my implanted hardware, I couldn't eat high-histamine foods at all. I couldn't go outside on high-pollen days. And then that jewelry thing, we had that. Yeah, it's a really significant issue. And that's a good example of the nickel allergy bucket. 

[00:26:01] SCOTT: I think there are so many things that contribute to our bucket. And I like the term that Dr. Jill Carnahan uses, which she says that the goal is to create “margin” in the bucket. In other words, just enough that the bucket's not overflowing. So that when we do encounter things that might be adding to the bucket, that we still have some margin. And doing a lot of the things that you're doing. And it sounds like in your case, getting some of these metal implants out of your body was the thing that reduced the contents of your bucket most significantly. And then allows you to – maybe you do still have some type of allergy or reaction to pollens or other things. But you have the margin in your bucket so that you then don't be symptomatic from those things. 

[00:26:42] SHARI: I love that.

[00:26:44] SCOTT: Is there an overlap between metal hypersensitivity and autoimmunity? Do we know if the body confuses the response to metals for other tissues in the body such that the metals now become triggers for autoimmune conditions? You alluded to this earlier talking about metals and Hashimoto's related to the thyroid. And then building on that, what is the ASIA syndrome? Or autoimmune/inflammatory syndrome induced by adjuvants? 

[00:27:11] SHARI: Oh, boy. That's a loaded question. But the relationship between metal hypersensitivity and autoimmunity is pretty complex. It's not completely understood. While there is some evidence to suggest a potential link between exposure to certain metals and immune dysregulation, the exact mechanisms are not well-defined. 

And in metal hypersensitivity, the immune system may react to metals as if they were foreign substances, which leads to the inflammatory response. It can manifest as dermatitis or other hypersensitivity reactions. 

The connection between metal hypersensitivity and the development of autoimmune conditions is not firmly established at all. One proposed hypothesis is that exposure to certain metals might induce the production of autoantibodies or trigger immune responses that target self-tissues. And this could lead possibly to autoimmune reactions. But the evidence supporting the hypothesis is still pretty limited. And more research as to the specific mechanisms is important and ongoing. 

Autoimmune diseases are multifactorial. We have various genetic environmental, immunological factors and components that contribute to the development. And while some studies suggest associations between metal exposure and autoimmune conditions, the causation is challenging to establish conclusively. 

As far as ASIA, the easiest way to understand ASIA is this diagnosis was first published in 2011 by an immunologist named Dr. Shoenfeld and his associates out of Israel. They addressed complications associated with the use of additives in inoculations and complications related to the side effects from exposure to those. 

Let's talk for a second about what an adjuvant is. An adjuvant is something that will stimulate an immune response. For example, certain shots, they use aluminum as an adjuvant. It's not well-understood how aluminum stimulates a foreign body or an immune reaction. But with introduction of an adjuvant, there are two responses that can occur. A foreign body reaction and an immune reaction. 

Essentially, they refer to the same process but emphasize how your body reacts to it. Will it embrace it? Which leads to a positive outcome. In such cases, we describe it as an immune reaction. On the other hand, if people perceive it as a foreign body reaction, it's often considered unfavorable as it seems to act as an affront or an insult to the system. 

At a cellular level, the body doesn't discern between the two. When exposed to something new, it reacts uniformly. It's unable to distinguish whether or not it's beneficial or detrimental. It simply treats it as foreign and processes that on a fundamental level. 

An adjuvant can be aluminum. It can be a stimulating – anything that stimulates an immune response or anything foreign to the body. What could be an adjuvant? A new exposure to the cold, the flu, the chickenpox, herpes, HPV. Those are biological adjuvants. But you can have adjuvants such as pollen, or metals, or exposure to any of those things. That's just how the body responds to it. The body will respond differently to each one and maybe exaggerate the response where you expect a very minor immune response. You may have an exaggerated response. And that's often described as the hypersensitivity. 

If you can understand ASIA as the big umbrella, then basically everything else falls under it. Metallic hypersensitivity is an adjuvant under ASIA. Autoimmune disease, thyroid conditions, lupus. The body acts on its own cells. That can be considered under ASIA. Breast implant illness is said to be under ASIA as a foreign body reaction to the biological implant. 

The question then becomes does everybody that has a metal hypersensitivity reaction have ASIA syndrome? In the case of metal allergy, if it's an acute exposure, the answer is no. You remove the exposure, the insult, the adjuvant is gone. ASIA is the chronic exposure, the symptoms associated with the hypersensitivity. Take ASIA and a breast implant illness. You remove the implants, you remove the adjuvant. You remove the insult and ASIA disappears. 

[00:31:42] SCOTT: Let's talk a little bit more about the metal implants. You mentioned dental implants, and pins, and clips, and joint or orthopedic replacement products. We know that these can trigger some immune reactivity. This type IV hypersensitivity reaction. If we have metals in our bodies, is the best path forward always to have them removed if we suspect that we're symptomatic because of them? What if they're still serving a need and maybe removing them isn't possible, then what path do we take? And then talk to us – I remember listening to one of your earlier conversations, and my recollection was that you had done some testing with your histamine levels before and after removal of your metal pins and the results were pretty staggering.

[00:32:29] SHARI: Yeah. I think metals play a huge role in triggering the immune system. Because our immune systems are intelligent and they know and recognize when a substance isn't supposed to be there. And so many times, I think we're down on our immune system. Oh, our body is so bad. It's not performing as it's supposed to. It's performing exactly as it's supposed to. It knows that that's not supposed to be there. 

Surgery is always a risk versus benefit analysis. Does the benefit outweigh the risk of the procedure, or the exposure, or insult from the foreign body? You can't implant something that isn't naturally there and expect the body to take no notice. That's only common sense. 

It doesn't mean every implant is bad or that we can't have surgery. It means we have to be really judicious and smart in judging what's necessary and what isn't. And we have to move forward from a place of faith, and communication, and research. And not a place of fear, which gets into the limbic system retraining. We need to have a plan for when things don't go as planned and reactions occur. 

As far as removing implants, if that's possible and you have a surgeon willing to remove the metal, yes, that is always the best-case scenario. If it can be safely removed and if it's served its purpose. We've discussed that even if there's no allergy, you will still have byproducts from the degradation of the implanted metal or material. 

The US is one of the only countries that does not routinely remove hardware once the body is healed. And if I understand correctly from the experts that I have consulted with, the hardware reps usually recommend that the hardware is removed. But, again, that's not happening on the regular here in the US. 

If removing them is not possible, which is the case for a lot of my hardware, we learn to live with a new normal. For me, what that looks like is I watch what I eat. I listen to my body. Work on keeping my mind positive. Take antihistamines to control pain and symptoms. And I have to decide what's worth extra symptoms and what's not. What honors my body and what doesn't?

I cannot un-ring certain bells. But I will tell you, I got super lucky with my doctors. They acknowledged the metal allergy and they were willing to remove the hardware. Still, a lot of what I had could not be removed. I had a few surgeons that removed the hardware that could just to indulge me. And they still don't acknowledge the benefit I received from having the hardware removed. 

My experience is not the experience of many patients. Hardware removal, especially certain types, such as surgical clips and staples, removing it isn't the norm. And many doctors will push back on it pretty substantially. 

For many of these patients that know their suffering and can prove their suffering, I've got patient story after patient story on my podcast. And, yet, they still can't find doctors that are willing to remove their hardware, which is super tragic. And it needs to change. 

There's a ton of anecdotal evidence like we've talked about. It's irrefutable. There are some studies in the medical literature but we need so many more. And for my followers and patients that are allergic to the metal, trying doctor after doctor after doctor till they find one that's sympathetic and willing to take the to remove the offending metal. 

And then we get into the conflict of interest similar to that of big pharma. There's big money in medical devices and hardware. Device manufacturers don't want to acknowledge these devices can cause harm. I won't go much further into that. But your listeners can go there because it's a real factor. And I feel like this is why the discussion prior to implantation is so important. There's a lot of metal that can't come out once it's placed. Certain surgical staples in high-risk vascular areas, cardiac implants, stents. Removing the these can be complicated at best. 

And I'll be pretty honest and vulnerable. There are still parts of my situation that scare me quite a bit. I don't know how I would ever have a pacemaker, or a cardiac stent, or a vascular stent. And I don't think I would ever choose chemotherapy. But chemotherapy is full of metal. I don't think that's an option for me. Body wouldn't tolerate it. And I can't buy into the fear of that. 

As medicine evolves and working to change the medical narrative, I could get hit by a car and be gone tomorrow. But I believe – I choose to believe there's always a way that I'm going to be sourced through any circumstance I'm in. And I can't choose to live any other way. If I go there, it would be ugly. 

In response to your question about histamine levels before and after the removal of my pins, my lab results were one of the things that definitely proved the allergy to my physicians. My plasma histamine level prior to my first surgery to remove the metal when I first discovered that I had a problem, my blood histamine level plasma was 3.53. And anything over one for context is off the chart. 

And within four weeks of having the 10 pieces of lumbar spine hardware removed, no change in outdoor pollen, diet, medication, my blood histamine level was 0.016. The evidence was irrefutable and correlated with the symptoms. I had huge reduction in pain. Reintroduction to food. Being able to tolerate pollen exposure outdoors was just a complete slam dunk. 

[00:37:40] SCOTT: Coming back to the conversation around on breast implants, do breast implants have metal in the shell or capsule? And can they then be the trigger for metal allergy in some people? Or is the potential for immune reactivity with breast implants different from the type IV hypersensitivity reactions to metals? 

[00:38:00] SHARI: Yes. And yes. I recently did an episode on breast implant illness with a metal-allergic patient. And many people don't know that breast implants themselves actually contain metal. All they have to do is read the ingredient list. It's right there in black and white. But that is not common knowledge or dialogue. They absolutely can be a contributor to metal allergy symptoms in those who are sensitive. 

There was a case that came to mind regarding a woman who was being poisoned by her implants. That's a toxicity issue. But she had an analysis of the metals in her body while she had the implants in. And I forgot what the mechanism of the test was. But she was extremely symptomatic. She had the implants explanted and retested returned to substantially low levels with symptoms that almost fully subsided. 

The capsule is the body's response to a foreign object. And it's not part of the implant. The implant contains the petrochemicals and heavy metals and how the silicone shell is made. Saline implants have a shell made from the silicone. The gummy bear implants are entirely silicone. When they are placed in the body, due to the body temperature, the silicone gel bleeds and leeches into the tissues immediately. The capsule starts to form around the implant and the silicone will bleed into the capsule. 

The capsule is permeable. So, the metals in the silicone will be able to escape the capsule. If you think of the capsule like a tissue bag around the implant, silicon has been found in lymph nodes, lungs, as far away as the kidney and the liver. The longer you have the implants, the more likely this is that it gets there. 

And then you add MTHFR detox issues. Part of the reason that women develop breast implant illness separate from the allergy or sensitivity. And then when the explant happens to remove the implants, many say that it's super imperative to remove the capsule. And a lot of plastic surgeons feel that it must all come out since the latest research shows that it bleeds into the capsule. And if not removed, many women have continuing issues. 

[00:39:53] SCOTT: Let's talk a little bit about IUDs as a potential trigger for metal hypersensitivity. Have you seen people that you're interacting with that have improved when their IUD was removed? And do you suspect them that that is more of a metal hypersensitivity reaction, or more of a copper toxicity reaction, or a combination of both potentially? 

[00:40:12] SHARI: Absolutely. I have seen it repeatedly. Many people have had substantial pelvic pain or back pain and have not made the connection with the IUD. As with many middle implants, you remove the implant and most of the symptoms go away almost immediately. 

One case comes to mind where the person had decades of pelvic pain. Never made the connection. Once they were tipped off and the IUD was removed, every symptom removed within 24 to 48 hours. Can't really comment on toxicity because I haven't evaluated those particular cases. But my suspicion is that it would be less about toxicity and more about allergy and/or a foreign body reaction, which goes back to the intelligence of our immune system. And, of course, reaction to any number of alloys is possible. Copper isn't always pure copper.

[00:40:59] SCOTT: Yeah. And I would think, if it was a toxicity issue, it would not lead to improvement of symptoms quite so quickly. That there would still be copper in other tissues of the body. The fact that the symptoms improved so quickly to me supports your thought that it is in many cases or at least in some cases the metal hypersensitivity type reaction. 

When we think about dental metals, the two most common for implants being titanium or zirconium, what are your thoughts? Do people generally tolerate zirconium? Or can we still have a hypersensitivity reaction to that? 

[00:41:35] SHARI: Oh, goodness. That's a loaded question. Nothing, as you know, is 100% in medicine. And I certainly don't follow enough dentistry data to be able to make anything other than an educated guess and to share my personal experience. But I know that a metal-allergic patient might be a better Candidate for a zirconium implant as opposed to titanium. But it's been established that there are trace metals in titanium. And titanium allergies, although they're less common, definitely do occur. 

We're seeing them more and more. And many metal allergic patients can be cross-reactive to many different metals. Therefore, metallic implants I think pose a high higher risk. 

I can share my own story about my own zirconium implant. I have a really incredible IAOMT biological dentist and had to have a tooth pulled. And we followed that up with a zirconium. Non-metallic implant. And my body wanted nothing to do with it. In my particular instance, I found a journal article that illustrated that the particular zirconium implant I had did contain trace amounts of nickel. That pretty much explained that. Had the implant removed. Symptoms resolved immediately. 

The journal article I think covered 10 or so brands of different kind of implants that were zirconium and listed the trace metals in each. Some had nickel and some did not. Who knew? My dentist didn't even know that there were trace metals in some zirconium implants. But the information's out there. We just had to uncover it. And we've got to trust our medical professionals. And some of them don't have time to do all the research. It's really important for a patient to advocate. 

Will every allergic patient to nickel react to zirconium implants or trace metals? I think not. I know some nickel-allergic patients that tolerate titanium implants just fine. And then you get to is a metal-allergic problem – is it a metal-allergic problem or is it an ASIA problem? Is it a foreign body problem? And there just isn't a perfect answer. But again, awareness, research, discussions, backup plans, biocompatibility testing all kind of contribute to better outcomes.

[00:43:39] SCOTT: Let's talk about hernia mesh. Do those contain metals that can trigger a type IV hypersensitivity reaction? Or are they more plastic or other materials that are less likely to trigger that type of response but maybe still do or can trigger a foreign body immune response? 

[00:43:57] SHARI: One of my colleagues, Dr. Scott Schroeder, is really well known for lecturing doctors and surgeons worldwide on metal allergies. And he discussed this exact subject with MELISA Diagnostics. And they could not get the mesh, which is usually a polyethylene. It's usually not metal. They could not get it to react like metal wood in regards to an allergic response. 

He discussed mesh with many surgeons that implant mesh. And those surgeons felt that the majority of cases, they saw a reaction. It was the edge of the mesh causing mechanical irritation and subsequent symptoms including infection after violating the skin. He personally had a number of patients that swore they were allergic to it. 

The only mesh I know of is made of polyethylene. I would suspect it would fall under the ASIA canopy. But I have heard that some of these are attached with metallic clips. Then you have a mixture of materials and any number of potential for various types of reactions. 

I think we're clear that plastics and foreign bodies can all cause immune responses and anybody can be allergic to anything. As to systemic allergy symptoms from plastics, I don't know enough to comment. But I can for sure comment that foreign body reactions are possible. And I've heard of many of those types of reactions.

[00:45:14] SCOTT: What are some other potential sources of metals that people should consider? What about cosmetics, for example? Or what about even just breathing outside air that could contain metals in it from coal burning, or wildfires, or things of that nature? 

[00:45:32] SHARI: Metals can be present in various sources. And people may be exposed to them in unexpected ways. Some in cosmetics, especially certain eyeshadows, lipsticks, foundations may contain trace amounts of metals like lead, or cadmium, or nickel. 

Certain personal care products like hair dyes and antiperspirants contain metals like aluminum or other trace elements. Drinking water can contain trace amounts of metals such as copper or lead especially in areas with older plumbing systems. 

One of my podcast guests was experiencing huge reactions, like unrecognizable facial swelling within about an hour after she would shower. And she was able to trace it back to a delayed nickel reaction from the water coming out of her pipes. And literally, she's unrecognizable within a three-hour window. 

A solution for this is to let water run to lessen the accumulation of metals within the water that's been sitting in the pipes. Shower filters can be added. Reverse osmosis systems. This is really an interesting episode with her. And my first viral online post was about people drinking out of their stainless-steel water bottles and that those could be making them sick. 

And the interesting thing about that was that I had a for 5,000 comments and many of them were, "Me too". Or, "I thought it was just me." Or, "I stopped using my stainless-steel water bottle and all of my blank symptoms went away." 

Outdoor air can contain metals particularly in areas with industrial activities. Traffic emissions. Proximities to sources like coal-burning factories, power plants. Wildfires can release metals in. And then my least favorite obscure source to talk about is a fire in a home fireplace. Because who doesn't love a crackling fire? I love a crackling fire. I will willingly absorb the metal smoke if I die early, so be it. But some occupations involve exposure to metals such as construction workers that work with material in metal processing industries. 

Dr. Schroeder spoke with a group of professors and engineers who worked in the beryllium industry from Europe. And this is used in making concrete. And a big problem with workers who inhale it was super evident. People have gotten sick from inhaling vaporized mercury around dental offices. I'm having a dentist on the podcast next week who was sickened by just mercury removal. And the HVAC systems and dental offices have to be isolated systems to avoid contaminating other offices. 

Also, we get to soil in certain areas that can contain elevated levels of metals. Human activities like mining, industrial processes can lead to soil contamination. And then hotter hobbies, such as pottery, stained glass making involve the use of material that contain metals. And then we know about metals as adjuvants and inoculations. Those are a factor. Big within the ASIA umbrella. And I have a family member that's allergic to these particular adjuvants. 

But here's one that most people don't think about. And you're going to find this incredibly interesting in the nickel allergy realm. And that's tattoos. Black ink and blue ink is very high in nickel and can cause people to be sensitized. And that goes back to the bucket analogy. 

[00:48:42] SCOTT: It's interesting, I wasn't actually going to ask you this question but it leads me when you talked about soil. A lot of the binders that we talk about taking in our protocols to improve our health could be things like zeolite. Could be things like bentonite clay. These come from the earth. They can be high in metals depending on the source. I mean, it's ideal to have those COAs and make sure that those products are not significant metal contributors. But what are your thoughts? Do you find that things like zeolite, bentonite clay, and whatnot in this hypersensitive population maybe are not well-tolerated? 

[00:49:21] SHARI: I think it's individual and it depends on the patient. I tolerate clay. I'm pretty sensitive. And I tolerate clays pretty perfectly. But I've also gotten to a mind space, which we'll talk about as we go on, where I refuse to be afraid of everything that's going to kill me. We're all going to die. We're all going out of here at some point. I refuse to live in fear. And so, I try now and I ask questions later. If my body likes it, then I can usually tell. If it doesn't like it, I can usually tell. I try not to prejudge ahead of using any particular supplement.

[00:49:54] SCOTT: We've seen a lot in the press recently about Stiff Person Syndrome. Wondering if you suspect any connection between stiff person syndrome and metal allergy. And what conditions do you think are most common in those people with metal hypersensitivity? 

[00:50:10] SHARI: Oh, this is so great. Dr. Scott Schroeder, who I talked to you about, has personal experience with two particular cases with a stiff person syndrome type presentation. He had two cases and they are ultimately fascinating. One was an engineer in his 40s who was incidentally my podcast guest on my episode three. If your listeners want to hear the full story. Pretty remarkable. 

He was paralyzed fully, quadriplegia, up to 10 hours per day. And the symptoms started three months after Dr. Schroeder operated on him. He didn't think to relate the two. Dr. Schroeder placed eight small stainless-steel screws in his foot and his paralysis started with just 45 minutes a day but progressed to 10 hours and sometimes more per day. 

He had basically episodic spastic paralysis. He was in the water twice and seized up going under not being able to move. And his wife had to save him. He went back to see Dr. Schroeder four and a half years later for another non-related condition and Dr. Schroeder coincidentally wound up removing the stainless-steel screws. And, coincidentally, he went from being paralyzed 10 hours a day to three literally overnight. 

Dr. Schroeder sent his blood to MELISA in Germany and for the MELISA test and they found out he was not only allergic to nickel but highly allergic to palladium and found that his gold crowns were 26% palladium. the day he got the last palladium-containing gold crown out, he has not been paralyzed one minute of one day since. 

He was seen at the Mayo Clinic. Was told he was going to have to be in a wheelchair the rest of his life. His wife would have to put him in a nursing home. He does have residual polyneuropathy and has drop foot bilaterally but gets around super well and is leading a full life. 

The other case was a back-fusion case that had many segments that were fused with titanium. Patient ended up with super significant neuromuscular symptoms that developed after the surgery. And this person was a contractor in New York City and did multi-million-dollar jobs. He ended up fully disabled and homeless for a period of time and had pretty significant painful spasms that would lock up different parts of his body throughout the day. 

He was committed to the psych ward on a number of occasions. He had to battle with ethics boards to allow the surgeon to take the metal out. But after the removal of the titanium, every single spasm resolved completely.

[00:52:33] SCOTT: Wow. Wow. Yeah. Any other key conditions or diagnoses that people with metal hypersensitivity might be labeled with that you commonly see? 

[00:52:47] SHARI: Oh, gosh. Lupus, Parkinson's, ALS. He was told by experts, the first guest I told you about that had the paralysis, Dana, as having ALS and diagnosed by multiple specialists. It's kind of like Lyme. Those diagnoses are out there. And until the metal allergy is part of the narrative and it's a process of elimination, it can be anything. 

But fibromyalgia, I think that's one of the biggest ones for me is fibromyalgia. And the interesting thing is how many patients I talk to that have fibromyalgia a history of metal hypersensitivity and metal allergies that will do nothing to improve their symptoms or to investigate it? 

[00:53:30] SCOTT: Wondering what your thoughts are about taking supplements with titanium dioxide. If someone is reactive to titanium, that's often in there as kind of a flow agent. One of those other ingredients that we see on the supplement bottle. Do you think that that could potentially – that titanium dioxide in supplements could potentially be enough to continuously trigger our metal hypersensitivity responses?

[00:53:56] SHARI: There are patients who show that they are allergic to titanium dioxide on the MELISA testing assay. And they cannot use makeup or sunscreens. And they have a lot of trouble with medications that use it as a filler. This is personally not a problem that I have. 

In regards to supplements and metal hypersensitivity, yes. I think it happens but as to the degree of symptom manifestation. Again, every patient is different and has a different chemical makeup and will react differently. I think until there are large studies, I think it will be very difficult to make a case for this. But I'm positive it happens.

[00:54:31] SCOTT: I want to get your thoughts now on the potential connection between metals and chronic infections such as Candida or maybe parasites. Do you think that as people reduce their metal burden systemically that they then are improving their terrain? And thus, indirectly reducing their microbial burdens as well? 

[00:54:51] SHARI: In my research, parasites can hold up to 10 times their physical weight in heavy metals. They feed off it. They love it. They love bodies that have heavy metals because it's food for them. There is a huge connection with heavy metals and parasites for sure. 

Parasites weaken the immune system. We know they make it harder for your body to deal with other issues that can contribute to chronic infections. There can be all sorts of other issues when your body's so busy fighting parasites. 

The relationship between Candida overgrowth and heavy metals in the body is a topic that's been explored. But scientific evidence supporting a direct and causative link I think is pretty limited outside of certain realms. Several doctors that consult on my podcast have seen Candida infections with dentists that work with patients who are hypersensitive to metals in their mouth. And Candida is presented in patients with orthopedic implants. They're allergic to those implants. 

We're not sure if the implants are the causative mechanism for the Candida or what the exact correlation is. Some theories propose a connection between Candida overgrowth and heavy metal exposure. But the idea is that heavy metals such as mercury, lead, cadmium may contribute to immune system suppression or disruption of the normal balance of microorganisms in the body and create an environment that is conducive to Candida overgrowth. 

And some argue that Candida may play a role in the detox process by binding to heavy metals potentially influencing their elimination from the body. But the scientific evidence isn't robust that supports the theories. Obviously, more research is needed. 

I think some heavy metals interfere with the detox process in the body. And by reducing metal exposure, the body may function more efficiently in eliminating toxins. And that creates a more supportive environment, as you know, for overall health including microbial balance. 

[00:56:41] SCOTT: Some suggest that EMF sensitivity or electromagnetic hypersensitivity syndrome is also connected to high levels of heavy metals in the body. That the more we can reduce our heavy metals, the less we are an antenna for these frequencies or electromagnetic fields in our world, in our environment. What are your thoughts on the connection between metals and EMF sensitivity? 

[00:57:05] SHARI: Personally, I feel that there are several components to this issue. One is just the hyperreactive state of the immune system. I think an immune system can become so hyperreactive that it can react on a hair trigger to almost any stimuli, including EMFs. 

The circumstance regarding EMFs that I have personal experience with is quite fascinating and probably not someplace you've gone before. And that is the phenomenon of galvanic reactions. I have experienced to varying degrees the sensation of having electricity running through my body. I used to call it surging. I didn't have another way to explain it other than it felt like I was plugged into a light socket and I had electric current running through my body. 

Dr. Scott Schroeder, who I've mentioned several times, he has done notable research regarding galvanic reactions within the body. He has discovered that dissimilar metals have different electrical charges. For example, a dental metal may have a positive charge and foot and ankle hardware may have a negative charge, for example. 

He's been able to establish that those different metals and the charges they hold can create a measurable electrical current with within the body. And he's proven this during in vivo experiments, that means in the body. And in the operating room with sterile environment, he did particular experiments. We discussed one. Some of my recent podcast episodes. 

But he also presented a key experiment to the FDA in a device panel meeting. And you can find that presentation on YouTube. But here he used a voltmeter before and after he removed some foot and ankle hardware from one of his patients. And he took a reading with one probe on the dental metal hardware and one probe on the metal hardware located in the foot and ankle. Took a reading. Proceeded to remove the hardware and then took a follow-up reading with the probe where the old foot and ankle hardware was. And this time, it was anchored on the bone. He noted that there was a drop in over 200 millivolts within the current in the body according to the voltmeter, which is absolutely astounding. 

And it perfectly explained the electric current I felt like I had running through my body. I had never been able to handle an EMG test. When they've hooked me up in PT to an e-stim, they had to barely turn it on because I would come off the table and feel like I was being electrocuted. 

Basically, the hypothesis is I had so much current already running through my body that my body just couldn't take anymore. And it was really interesting. For example, when I had Lyme disease, I purchased an Ampcoil, which is a PEMF device, or pulsed electromagnetic device. And I could barely use it because I like my whole body was vibrating after using it for – we're talking like a minute and a half. And the magnetic current was doing something to interfere basically with the current in my body. And I came to notice that it was worse when I was dehydrated. 

I was able to make this same connection to magnetic fields such as airplanes or MRI equipment. And, again, always worse when I was dehydrated. But our bodies are like batteries. You add electrolytes and water to the battery, it functions better. We have an electrical current that runs through them. Sometimes more and sometimes less. But when I was more hydrated, the battery worked differently and I was less effective. 

And I've noticed, as I've had more and more metal removed, I've become less sensitive. But because there's probably less electrical current. And the crazy thing is the more electrical current running through the body between the dissimilar metals, the faster it causes the implants to degrade and corrode. And then there's a whole cascade of symptoms downstream from that. 

Probably the craziest story, I'm going to sound nuts, was an Apple Watch. I had a really cool Apple Watch. I had it all fixed up. Super excited. I'm a big Apple person. And after a couple of days of wearing it, I started feeling like I was plugged into a light socket. 

Now I don't have other EMF sensitivities. My cellphone's not a problem. My Wi-Fi isn't a problem at this point. But the Apple Watch was making me feel like I was plugged into a light socket. And the only thing that changed was the addition of the Apple Watch. 

The symptoms were pretty severe. I would have – my muscles were jumping. And it would just – every day would build on the next. I decided to take off the Apple Watch just to try out and see if any of the symptoms changed. And within hours, every single symptom went away. Obviously, my body doesn't want anything to do with the Apple Watch. And, fortunately, computers, cellphones, radio frequencies don't affect me. The rife frequencies do not affect me. The radio frequencies. Not magnetic frequencies. But any magnetic, hybrid cars example with a big battery, absolutely make my skin jump inside and out. It is super nuts.

[01:01:47] SCOTT: It's really interesting. The electrogalvanism is something that I think most biological dentists would be aware of. But I don't know that many of us think about it outside of the context of the mouth. If you have dissimilar metals in the mouth, it can create that galvanic response that you're talking about. I think that is fairly commonly discussed in the biological dental arena but not so much other metal implants throughout the body. That's a key and very interesting thing for us to consider as well. Thanks for bringing that up. 

If I do commonly get questions in the heavy metal arena, it's about gadolinium. I'm wondering, is gadolinium more of a toxigenic response? Or can it also be immunogenic? Can we have allergy to gadolinium? And what are you hearing from those that you're working with is working best for those that have had injury from gadolinium? 

[01:02:42] SHARI: Contrary to popular belief, gadolinium is toxigenic and immunogenic. I mean, you ask ChatGPT, it'll tell you it's not a problem. It's eliminated by the body. I can't speak to the specific allergy with gadolinium. I wouldn't have any knowledge of the mechanism of that. 

But there is a wonderful page on Facebook run by a friend of mine, Debbie, called Living with Gadolinium LLC. And it is a wonderful repository for gadolinium information. But let me share with you a few facts that she shared with me. And they're pretty mind-blowing. 

Basically, gadolinium toxicity has the potential to cause disease in humans even in small amounts and may be associated with significant morbidity and mortality. Gadolinium toxicity can affect many body systems including the musculoskeletal brain, skin, renal, and neurological systems. And the toxicity can manifest itself in various symptoms and effects on the body. Including the central nervous system, impairment of cognition, memory, impairment of sight, painful tinnitus, angioedema, additional manifestations including impairment of voice, pharyngeal swallowing mechanisms. Basically, a whole host of symptoms. And they can develop severe life-threatening illness similar to cytokine storm response three. Basically, there is deposition and retention in every single patient that is injected with gadolinium. 

[01:04:07] SCOTT: Let's talk about the MELISA testing, or Memory Lymphocyte Stimulation Assay. It was originally created as I recall by Dr. Vera Stejskal, who I knew before her passing. And the MELISA test really is a way to explore the potential for metal hypersensitivity or metal allergy. Tell us a little about the MELISA testing and how it can help to uncover another important piece of the puzzle in those patients dealing with chronic illness. 

[01:04:35] SHARI: We'll talk a little bit about this more in a minute. But MELISA is actually one of two companies that does metal LTT blood testing or the Lymphocyte Transformation Testing. 

As you know, MELISA is located in Germany. And the other company, Orthopedic Analysis, is located in Chicago. Both of them vary slightly in their offerings and methodology. And I've covered in detail on my podcast the testing protocols for both of these providers. Done some walkthroughs on how to complete the testing, especially in regards to MELISA. And if that's of interest to your listeners, they can go check out those episodes. 

But the LTT test is a very simple blood test that exposes the blood to a variety of metals and then looks for the delayed hypersensitivity, immune response, and cell proliferation under a microscope. The test is clinically validated but it is not recognized as such. And it is not FDA-approved. 

Sadly, many providers don't even know that it exists. And I, along with many other medical professionals, feel like it's a pretty amazing test. And many patients have been completely validated in their metal hypersensitivity responses by the test. It is currently not covered by insurance. And we are working on that every day. But it can be a little bit on the pricey side. 

It gives a ton of information that has proven super relevant and accurate for myself and many others. Because of its status with, the FDA the results are not accepted by all practitioners. And we are campaigning actively to change that status. It's a great test. Because it's a much better predictor of what's happening internally with metal hypersensitivity. And it's also a decent way to uncover hypersensitivity to titanium. 

There used to be a lab that did MELISA testing in the US. But they don't still offer that. MELISA does have a lab in the US. But mainly, they just ship out the kits. They don't perform the testing. 

They have a number of different panels, including dental metals. And my colleagues used to use the lab that performed the MELISA test in the US. I really don't know what happened. But they stopped offering it through that lab. They're currently working on having the MELISA test available through a lab in Canada and anticipate that that could occur sometime this year. 

There are many metal researchers in Canada who are pushing really hard for that. But currently, the blood from MELISA has to be shipped to Germany for testing and received within 48 hours. It's been pretty difficult to get the blood there in time from the West Coast and other parts of the country since COVID. 

When Dr. Schroeder works with patients, he'll test for the metals that are part of the alloys that they have implanted in their body. Titanium alloy, for example, is composed of titanium, aluminum, vanadium, and a trace amount of nickel. You kind of need to test for all four.

The great thing about MELISA is they have a number of panels that include a really wide variety of metals. Typically, a certain panel can be chosen. Sometimes additional metals will have to be added. And when Dr. Schroeder tests, he tests for all of the possible dental metals that a person may have. If he and many other people had their way, the metal testing would be part of a basic wellness test just like a metabolic panel or a CBC that we get yearly. 

Dr. Schroeder is working on authoring an upcoming journal publication citing references that indicate 20% of the population is allergic to at least one metal. And then as we've discussed, nickel allergy is 18% plus of the population depending on what reference. Essentially, one in five have a metal allergy that a physician is unaware of with potential for devastating health effects. 

And then MELISA has basic panels that include testing for stainless steel alloy, titanium alloy, cobalt-chrome. That would be basic. And then from there, if a patient has other metals such as mercury amalgam, further metal should be tested to cover these. 

[01:08:37] SCOTT: Is the MELISA testing then something would recommend people consider before having a dental implant, or another orthopedic implant, or any type of metal introduced to the body? Or are there other types of biocompatibility testing? You mentioned one in Chicago. I know, historically, there's been the Clifford materials reactivity testing available as well. Do you always suggest that we do some exploration before we have these implanted materials? 

[01:09:06] SHARI: Anytime anyone has a metal implant placed, especially one that's designed to be permanent, it is recommended that they are metal-tested prior to that procedure. That said, there is no guarantee that they will not develop a delayed hypersensitivity reaction to the metal later. And this really needs to be explained to the patient in the informed consent process. 

As it was stated earlier, MELISA is one of the metal allergy tests available. And then Orthopedic Analysis out of Chicago is another. The Clifford test, many dentists have utilized over the years, the metal sometimes has to be present in the patient for the patient to mount an immune response. 

A patient that's coming out on my podcast this week. Had tested positive to titanium and was allergic to titanium but did not show a positive response, very mild, not clinically relevant, to nickel. We had a lumbar fusion revised and they implanted him with stainless steel, which contains nickel. Didn't show a prior reaction. All of his symptoms went away in the OR. He was fine for three months. And then every single symptom came back. Retested and tested off the charts allergic to nickel. 

The pre-testing is a great idea but it's not a slam dunk. And it will only show so much. It does not mean you cannot develop many patients with metal hypersensitivity or cross-reactive. Just because you test positive to titanium today doesn't mean you won't test positive to nickel, or cobalt, or another metal tomorrow.

[01:10:36] SCOTT: Let's talk about the concept of patch testing. How is patch testing performed? And what are the pros and cons of patch testing compared to MELISA testing? 

[01:10:45] SHARI: An alternative to test for the metal hypersensitivity is patch testing. And this tests external reactions, which, as I mentioned, don't always correlate to what's happening internally with the metal. 

A positive patch test to titanium, for example, is super rare. The Mayo did testing over decades and didn't get one positive patch test to titanium. It's notoriously unreliable for that. Another thing with patch testing is it can pre-sensitize the body to a metal ahead of implantation during a surgical or dental procedure. And that's not widely talked about. Patch test is quite time-consuming and it can cause some pretty substantial discomfort for those that undergo the test. The upside is that it's covered by insurance. And so, it can be a place to start for some people. 

But yeah, the pre-sensitization is becoming more of a factor. And we have just not found that the patch test always correlates with the LTT test and the internal reactions. 

[01:11:47] SCOTT: This is more of the traditional allergy testing where they go in and kind of just put a small amount of a substance under your skin and kind of watch for welt or some type of immune reaction. Correct? 

[01:11:58] SHARI: Correct. And it is good for testing – to testing other allergies to chemicals and like Balsam of Peru allergies and things like that. But again, it involves you having the metal taped on your back for up to a week and then taking various readings. 

[01:12:14] SCOTT: In addition to the immunogenic potential of heavy metals, do you recommend people do heavy metal testing that's looking for the metal itself, for metal burden, metal presence? Do you have a preference about how to test for that metal presence side of things rather than the immunoactivity? And then do you support or not support provocation testing, which could lead to some redistribution of metals in the body? And it seems to me potentially trigger more immune hypersensitivity in those people that are already moving in that direction. 

[01:12:48] SHARI: I was one of those people. Metal ion testing of the blood is used by various healthcare providers. Orthopedic Analysis offers that. MELISA does not offer that one. That's just one illustration of the differences in some of the LTT test offerings. 

But urine testing is another way. Each of these have their normals and their interpretations for results outside of normal. Provocation testing with chelators can be dangerous and really needs to be used under a medical provider's direction by qualified individuals. 

Personally, I have not tolerated IV chelation or any provocation test well. the word on the street, like you mentioned, is a lot about the redistribution of metals and more triggering events in the body. My personal opinion, doctor of Sheri here, is to assume you're toxic. I don't think it matters how much. I assume you're toxic. 

Our lifestyles, chronic infection, our illnesses, and environments just point to that. And I think if you implement a practice of gentle detox regularly, that won't hurt anybody if it's not done to an excess. Personally, I don't feel that the provocation tests are helpful or necessary. 

[01:14:02] SCOTT: Yeah. I plan to detoxify daily until I stop breathing. It'll be a life-long process. I totally agree with you.

At this point in our conversation, we know that metal allergy is very real. That it can play a role in symptoms. Is there still a place for detoxification of metals to reduce the burden in the body? And thus, potentially reducing the hypersensitivity reaction as well? Meaning, if we have fewer Metals in the body, we're going to have less of an immune response. And then I kind of think of that in a way kind of similar to how we approach mast cell activation where we want to work on the response to a trigger. In this case, the response is that hypersensitivity. But we also want to work on reducing or removing the trigger itself. In this case, the metal. How important is detoxification, gentle detoxification, not aggressive detoxification in the metal conversation? And what are some of the tools that you think are most helpful? 

[01:14:59] SHARI: Oh, there's so much a place for detox. Absolutely a big fan. But anything, and I'm a perfect example of this, there can be too much of a good thing. I am an overachiever. I usually have hurt myself by doing things to excess. 

Anytime we can lighten the burden on our body, hypersensitivity reactions usually follow suit and lessen. And as far as removing the trigger, it's both. Assisting our body sometimes requires a multifaceted approach. And for me, that was removing as much implanted hardware as I could and then improving the terrain. And I am still very much a work in process. 

I've only really been well for a couple of years now. I can guarantee that if I hadn't taken drastic steps to remove a lot of the offending metal, I would be a very, very sick girl. I could have stayed alive maybe. But I think we can be so hyper-focused on detox and getting every last piece of metal or every ion that it can have the reverse and have an extremely detrimental effect on our psyche and our physical condition. I think detox definitely has its place. But it's striking the right balance. And we'll go there. But I think it's not just detoxing the body. It's detoxing the mind and keeping the mind right. But in regards to physical detox, for me, sometimes I'm better at it than other times. I have to live a life in between. I choose a more gentle detox. 

My infrared sauna has been a really great option for me. Simple things like drinking water with lemon. Staying hydrated. Getting sunlight. I think, often, we don't give our bodies enough credit. And one of my favorite practitioners has said, "You just have to be willing to do 2% more." And I find that that's really true much of the time in regards to the physical detox of metals. 

There's a variety of things that can work. But caution I think is really important, especially in those with implanted medical hardware. Because redistribution is a real concern. The gentle methods are often much preferred when it comes to the detox arena. As to the tools that I find the most helpful. Like I mentioned, my sauna, water, sleep. I think trusting our body to know what it needs to do. 

[01:17:21] SCOTT: And it sounds like you tolerate sauna well. But I would say, just for those people listening that are more sensitive, sauna can also lead to redistribution of metals in the body, right? I think there's a place and a time. I think if someone's really early on and they are significantly impaired, maybe aren't sweating, maybe have adrenal issues, haven't opened the channels of elimination, are constipated, then we want to think about the fact that, yes, maybe we're sweating some things out. But we might also be mobilizing and redistributing some things internally. And so, you just kind of have to gauge. If you're doing sauna and it makes you feel worse, that's probably a good clue that maybe it's not the right time. But it might be the perfect tool at some point in the future. 

[01:18:06] SHARI: Mm-hmm. 

[01:18:06] SCOTT: Is there a role for immune modulation in dealing with metal hypersensitivity? It seems to me we have here a hypervigilant, overreactive immune response that is not unlike autoimmunity. We talked about that. Is there a role for tools like low-dose naltrexone? Or LDA, low-dose allergen therapy? Or LDI, low-dose immunotherapy? What are your thoughts on some of the interventions that are working to modulate and balance the immune response? 

[01:18:38] SHARI: I can't really speak to LDA or LDI because I haven't had a lot of exposure to those modalities. But I'm such a fan of the concept. And I look forward to bringing that in. LDN is a compound that I used before it was cool. I've used it probably for seven or eight years. And it's been really beneficial for my immune system. 

I, at one point, didn't tolerate anything. And it was something that I could tolerate. It's taken the edge off of systemic pain. It's had very few side effects. And I'm a side-effect girl. Definitely, I've noticed the benefit. And the very little risk, as far as bringing this on board in my opinion, there seems to be a lot of clinical evidence for the great properties that it has in modulating the immune system and lowering inflammation. 

There is some promising new research that I recently discussed with some immunologists that hints to certain anti-TNF and anti-IL agents, such as low-dose methotrexate and hydroxychloroquine, as well as biologics being really good options to calm down immune hyperactivity for patients with implanted metals that cannot have them removed. Such as me. Now that's doesn't go across the board for everybody. We're speaking specifically to that population. 

And at present, those are off-label uses. And in the current climate would be really difficult to get those approved through conventional methods. But there's being work done towards this every day. And I think it's a worthwhile venture. Looking forward to seeing progress in that arena in the coming years. There's pretty promising research. 

[01:20:09] SCOTT: I think the only thing we have to be a little cautious about with some of the biologics is if a portion of our bucket is chronic infections. And we're, thus suppressing portions of the immune system, we may then end up having a scenario where the infections then become a bigger issue. I'm happy that we've got lots of tools out there. But it's kind of the same conversation where we say, "Well, if you have chronic Lyme disease, you need to be cautious about taking steroids." Unless you're taking them in physiologic doses that are very low for purposes of supporting the adrenals. With biologics, I think we also want to be cautious and at least give some thought to is there potentially chronic infections playing a role as well? Because that could potentially kind of let them out of the gate so to speak. 

You mentioned that you hadn't had much experience with LDA or LDI. Anyone that you've talked to that's used homeopathy in the heavy metal arena to try and minimize some of those hypersensitivity reactions? 

[01:21:09] SHARI: No. But I am super excited to explore that. There's just not enough hours in the day. But I'm going to get there. I love homeopathy.

[01:21:16] SCOTT: There are systems of energetic desensitization that practitioners use like NAET or Nambudripad's Allergy Elimination Technique, like BioSET, like the Ellen Cutler Method. Have you talked with anyone that found getting desensitization to metals could help with some of their hypersensitivity symptoms? 

[01:21:37] SHARI: Sadly, I have not had a lot of time to research all those methods. But I think there are a ton of great tools out there. Personally, recently, I have just reached out to consult with an NAET instructor. And I'm definitely bringing that on the podcast. I've heard some pretty significant miracles. And I have a real vested interest. Because, obviously, I've got metals that I'm sensitive to that my body's reacting to that I can't remove. How can I reframe the environment in my body to see it differently and choose not to see this is an enemy? I'm really excited. And we can follow up on that at a later date if you like.

[01:22:12] SCOTT: Yeah. I'm excited that you're looking into it. I think these systems definitely have some potential to help particularly in situations like this.

We're kind of getting to our last few questions but I think still a very big topic, which is this idea of the diet and nickel in the diet. And that being a contributor to metal hypersensitivity. How important is diet? What is the low-nickel diet? What are some of the higher nickel foods? And then, sadly, because it's one of my favorite things, but how might we use cashews as a basic screen for metal allergy? 

[01:22:47] SHARI: Well, the good news is, in general, you can still have them and maybe at a later point. But you can still have your cashews. I still have mine. I love them. They're one of my favorites. And I've heard it said that we always crave the stuff we're allergic to. How true is that? 

But in regards to metal hypersensitivity and regards to specifically systemic nickel hypersensitivity, the diet is massively huge. And very few people are talking about this. This is one of the things that I'm really aiming to change. It's a much larger component than anybody realizes. 

With the exception of those that are living with this condition, this is one of the easiest things to bring on board and one of the quickest things to see really fast results with. Aside from having a documented allergy to hardware and having it removed, I'm really excited about what the trends in the low-nickel diet living and lifestyle does. 

I have seen a myriad of symptoms completely cleared by patients who discover a nickel allergy and change to a low-nickel diet. This can be anything from resolution of dyshidrotic eczema to full resolution from decades of fibromyalgia and chronic pain and everything in between. Clearing up brain fog. Psychiatric issues. Burning sensations. Boils on the body. 

I dare say, it could give the body just the edge it needs to clear Lyme and coinfections. And so, I'm super excited for the medical community to really realize what's going on with nickel hypersensitivity in regards to the dietary ramifications. Because it will literally revolutionize the diet industry. 

It was so instrumental in my own recovery. I can tell you, my own son, who was coincidentally adopted, has been vomiting his entire life. And we thought he was allergic to soy. He's had endoscopies. He's had colonoscopies. Allergy shots. Everything you can imagine. And nobody could figure out what was going on with him other than sometimes he was allergic to soy worse than others. 

Though, through a series of random coincidences, we were able to make a connection to him having a nickel allergy. He has no implanted hardware. Changed his diet to a low-nickel diet and has not thrown up his food since at all. We're talking 21 years of history, which is literally unbelievable. 

And my cashew theory is a little bit of a joke but it could work in some instances. Basically, nuts are some of the highest nickel foods out there. And cashews are one of the highest nickel-containing nuts that there are. I've always joked that if you want to know if you're allergic to nickel, eat a few handfuls of cashews and see how you feel six hours later or the next day. Now that is not a scientific experiment. It's my own random using. But it's actually proven accurate in many cases. 

In all seriousness, some of the highest nickel foods out there are basically the foods that people tell you are the most anti-inflammatory. And for people without a nickel allergy, they're fine. But for those that are allergic to Nickel, they can literally light you on fire. 

And I'm going to break every paleo fan's heart right now. Because it's literally almost everything on the paleo diet except meat. It's nuts, seeds, leafy green vegetables, brown rice, gluten-free grains, soy, beans, coconut, berries. And probably the biggest heartbreaker is chocolate. 

The best foods to eat with a nickel allergy seem to be mainly meat-based. The carnivore diet has helped a ton of people with nickel allergies. Squashes are generally safe. Apples, pomegranates. Some vegetables like cucumber, a little lower. Frizzy lettuce. But white bread, white rice. Sourdough seem to be fairly well-tolerated and also white potatoes. White chocolate is an option for some people. Starchy vegetables are a lot less offensive if you're allergic to nickel. And it is not a good weight loss plan at all. 

There are a couple of guides out there that are really helpful if one suspects a nickel allergy. There is the Italian nickel detox diet. Something called the Rebelytics diet. And then there's a brand-new low-nickel diet cookbook that just came out written by a third-year med student with a forward by a prominent dermatologist. And you can find that at thelownickeldiet.com. 

There's some really supportive Facebook groups for people with nickel and hardware allergies. Also, allergies to clips, and staples, and other implants. Really great communities out there. I owe a lot of my health and recovery to many of these communities. 

And there are some tricks when one needs to consume a meal that's high in nickel and you're allergic such as taking 1,000 milligrams of Vitamin C with a meal high in nickel is believed to keep the body from absorbing a lot of the nickel content from the food and a lot of the nickel content that conveys with plant-based foods. 

The interesting thing about that is that nickel content in the plant-based foods can vary depending on where in the world the plant was grown and what the soil composition is in that location. There's some talk about are hydroponics a safer option? You have to feed the hydroponics. And are you feeding the hydroponics food that's higher in metals? That's a whole new evolving thing as well. 

And I think is like with the gluten. We're seeing much many more gluten-free options available now. And I think this will follow suit. We'll have a lot more ways to deal with nickel and nickel-free vegetables and hydroponics as this becomes a more popular dialogue. But again, I can't stress enough the life-changing results if nickel allergy is really one of the root causes of the symptoms in changing the diet. 

And then this is a little on the fringe as well, but it's been a factor for me, is changing the environment for those systemically symptoms. That means changing out stainless-steel water bottles to glass or ceramic-lined. Changing out stainless cookware to glass or ceramic-lined. 

And they've told us nonstick is toxic. And I was so excited that I found a nonstick cookware made out of sand. it is non-toxic. And I was like so excited to find that. But changing out 18/10 Cutlery to 18/0. That second number is the nickel content. There's a lot of tips and tricks. And cooking on silicone if you're not allergic to silicone. These can really pay off. 

And in regards to a diet that's clean eating nickel, you're going to never get rid of all the nickel in the food. It's not possible. And the pervasive guideline right now is really to keep the diet below 150 micrograms of nickel per day after detoxing generally a lot of nickel out of the symptoms. And the new low-nickel diet cookbook helps detail how that's possible. It's really learning an old trick. But once you learn it, it becomes old hat like anything else and a much easier acclimation period. 

[01:29:25] SCOTT: It's another interesting connection that you made. I think the Carnivore diet has been very helpful for many people. And then there's discussions around, "Well, is it because you reduced oxalates, or lectins, or some other thing?" But it sounds like that is also a low-nickel diet. Maybe that's another reason why some people are having good results with the carnivore diet. 

Wondering if trace minerals could potentially also have a role here? A lot of times the body will hold on to metals because of our mineral deficiencies. Wondering if you've made a connection between using trace minerals over time to give the body the minerals that we need so that it then doesn't need to hold on to some of these metals. And obviously, we're not talking about people that still have implanted materials, but metals in other places in tissues in the body. What are your thoughts on trace minerals? 

[01:30:19] SHARI: Oh, I've have not gone there yet. I haven't had – they're just aren't enough hours in the day. I'm so excited to uncover. There's so much. So much. And I'm excited to go there but I have not gone there yet. 

[01:30:30] SCOTT: Limbic system retraining tools have been immensely helpful for many people dealing with chronic Lyme disease, mold illness. Though, I think there is at times some resistance to these tools that maybe people interpret the suggestion being that the problem is all in their head. And so, I think it's important to differentiate that, limbic system impairment, it may not be in your mind but it is in your brain. 

We're not saying that there's a mental, emotional problem necessarily with limbic system impairment but that there is something happening in the brain. Can limbic system retraining like Dynamic Neural Retraining System that you mentioned, or the Gupta program, or another popular one in the last couple years, Primal Trust, can they play a role?

And then in the context of our conversation, are we using those tools to help reduce metal hypersensitivity? Are we using them more for the medical PTSD of being invalidated and gaslit for so many years? Or are we using these tools for both of those? 

[01:31:37] SHARI: I am such a fan of limbic system retraining. I might even go so far to say I think it's 50% of the chronic illness picture. And I would agree with you. I don't think it's in your mind. I think it's in your brain. And our bodies are trained to heal. And there's so much with the frequency of our thoughts and our actions. And the way we speak to ourselves literally can change our DNA. You've probably seen the experiments on water. Have you seen that? 

[01:32:02] SCOTT: With Dr. Emoto? Yeah. 

[01:32:04] SHARI: Yes. So amazing. And so, it can change what we manifest in our lives. Now, I don't have a lot of experience with the Gupta program or Primal Trust. I did do DNRS fairly religiously for a period of time. But I also started following the work of somebody new. Her name is Dr. Kim D'Eramo. She's The Institute of Mind Body Medicine. She is an ER-trained allopathic physician that left her practice to do mind-body medicine. And she taught me that retraining our brain didn't always have to be as regimented as the DNRS protocols. 

Now for some people, that's very helpful and they need that structure. But it can come much easier than a full-blown routine. We just have to be willing to embrace new possibilities with that to feel emotions and to not judge them as good or bad, so that the energy can move within our body. And I think believing you can heal is half the battle. 

For me, whether I'm using it for PTSD, or being gaslit, or the metal hypersensitivity, it goes back to the chicken or egg. What came first? I think it helps with all of it. And I don't know what percentage is attributed to what. And I don't care. As long as I'm healing and moving forward. That's basically my two cents on that.

[01:33:19] SCOTT: Love it. Big fan of these systems as well. I did DNRS an hour-plus a day for seven months several years ago. And it definitely had some very positive effect. I am in agreement with you there.

Before I get to my last question, wondering if people are resonating with this. I will obviously have your website in the show notes. And your podcast is available as well. Do you do any coaching or consulting with people on their individual cases? 

[01:33:50] SHARI: Oh, gosh. I wish I could clone myself. I get asked that all the time. And the answer, unfortunately, is not generally. I try to put everything I know in my podcast episodes and in my social media content. I'm excited. I don't have it ready yet. Gosh, I was so hoping to have it ready by the time I showed up on your podcast. 

But this year, I will be rolling out an A-to-Z course on metal allergy. It will be affordable. And that will allow me to basically reach the people that are needing more of that one-on-one help. If somebody goes to the website now, they can sign up for the free newsletter an email list and they can get a free symptom list and a next step bundle. It's kind of an abbreviated version of what's going to come out in the course. But that will be available. 

And I'm still very much in my journey. And I have good days and bad days and trying to just get through functioning as a wife, and a mom, and a real estate agent. And then providing this service to the community. It's a lot slower going than I wish. But that course is coming out sometime soon.

[01:34:51] SCOTT: You're making a big difference. Give yourself credit for that as well.

My last question is the same for every guest, and that is what are some of the key things that you do on a daily basis in support of your own health? 

[01:35:03] SHARI: You may not like my answer here. It follows was the Dr. Kim theory. And this may be a really unusual answer. I don't work at it anymore. I don't fight my illness. I'm not a warrior. I don't battle. And I choose to believe that I'm infinitely sourced and I receive all of the emotions and all of the experiences without judgment. 

And one of the key things that Dr. Kim taught me is I ask regularly what else is possible here? And how can this symptom, or this circumstance, or this implant be the best thing to happen to me in this moment? And that is what is proven to bring the most harmony into my body and into my mind. 

You've had other guests on. I follow my intuition. Whatever it says I should do in a given day. Sometimes I sauna. Sometimes I don't. Sometimes I eat crap. Sometimes I don't. I just choose to no longer reside in fear. And I choose to no longer believe that this virus, or this pathogen, or this symptom is permanent and irreversible. This quality of life that I have currently can't be changed. 

I choose to no longer believe that I've got to get rid of all of the metal, or every last bit of Bartonella, or every last mast cell that's acting up. It's not possible. I don't think it's necessary. And I believe firmly that once we start believing we can live our best life, we manifest that and we start living it, our body responds. 

I do try to do the basics to generally be happy, to generally get a full night's sleep, to generally ground and connect to the earth, to connect to people and to have experiences that are meaningful. To see blessings and positivity. To laugh and believe that everything is working for my highest and best good. And to consider all the options. 

I give the benefit of the doubt to react first with faith and not fear. That everything in my life is working for me. And I'm just so grateful for the journey that I have been on and for the experiences I've had that have led me to this point in my life. It was incredibly difficult. 

I would not go back and trade one of those experiences for where I'm at right now. It was all for a really great purpose. I'm incredibly grateful that you brought me on to share my story. And I really, really hope you will keep me informed. And can't wait to hear about the experiences of the metal-allergic patients within the Lyme and mold illness communities that you serve. And I hope it explodes and that we start to notice a massive wave of wellness as people start to connect and implement these dots. 

And forgive me, Scott, but I really need to take a minute and say how personally grateful I am for you. You reach out and you touch so many people. And your knowledge is incredible. Your knowledge just dwarves mine. And you may not know this, but your episode with LymeStop was the episode that led me there. And it was such a huge part of my story in recovering from Lyme and coinfections as well as that of several family members, my son, and close friends. 

And I would have to say that it is still probably my favorite Lyme modality. If I had to just isolate one. That had nothing to do with metal allergies. Dr. Smith is a gift from God. Personally, I feel like it's the cheapest, most effective, and fastest way to overcome Lyme and coinfections. 

And the craziest thing is that I'm such a high Herxer and I had almost zero Herx reactions to LymeStop treatment. And like I mentioned earlier, I don't think I have a single symptom left 1.5 years later. And it's truly a miracle. Please keep me posted on the feedback you get from the Lyme and mold communities and providers that serve them. 

[01:38:44] SCOTT: He is definitely somebody that I respect a lot. Like I said, I've done LymeStop as well. I actually – interestingly, I did have a bit of a surprise Hrxheimer reaction. And for me, it manifested as kind of sadness, and weepiness, and things that are not my normal personality. And maybe lasted for two or three months. But I do think that it can be an incredible tool for many people. 

I mean, nothing is a magic bullet for everyone. But I agree with you. I think it has a lot of potential and is worth exploring.

I really resonated with everything that you said. I mean, I think mindset is important. I think we don't want to – even when we're talking about Lyme disease, I don't think we want to approach it like a battle or a war. I don't really resonate with identifying with the illness. I've never loved the term Limey. Don't really say Lyme warrior. Any of those kinds of things. 

I don't think we are ever fully eradicating every last Borrelia, and Bartonella, and Babesia, and all of those things. But I don't think we need to do that to be healthy again. And so, I think for me, that's not a hopeless statement. It's actually an empowering statement that I don't have to do the impossible to get back to being well. And technically, we have more bugs in us and on us than we do human cells. We're already just a bug bus if you really want to look at it that way. 

[01:40:08] SHARI: There's so much fear surrounding where the world's going. And all the biological warfare, and the chemical warfare, and the COVID. Our bodies are resilient. And we are eternal beings. We are here having a mortal experience. Our journey does not end on this planet. We are here to do the good we can do for ourselves and for others while we're here. And then our energy moves on in whatever form that takes. But it's all good. It's all good.

[01:40:34] SCOTT: Well, I just want to say thank you for spending time with us. Thank you for doing the work that you do. It is rare that someone reaches out to me to propose doing a podcast that I actually end up doing a podcast with that person. And when I listened to your podcast, listened to some of the interviews that you've done, it was so clear that not only are you passionate about this, but this is a critical topic for people to consider and one that I have not really discussed with my audience in the past. 

And so, I'm just really grateful for the difference that you're making, for the people that you're helping, you're helping to minimize people's struggle, their suffering. And so, I really just want to honor you as well. Thanks so much for being here, Shari.

[01:41:13] SHARI: You're so welcome. You're going to make me weep.


[01:41:16] SCOTT: To learn more about today's guest, visit HeavilyMetalled.com. That's HeavilyMetalled.com. 

Thanks for listening to today's episode. If you're enjoying the show, please leave a positive rating or review, as doing so will help the show reach a broader audience. To follow me on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, or TikTok, you can find me there as BetterHealthGuy. If you'd like to support the show, please visit BetterHealthGuy.com/donate. To be added to my newsletter, visit BetterHealthGuy.com/newsletters. This and other shows can be found on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, and Amazon Music. 

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