EPISODE 232

[INTRODUCTION]

[0:00:01] ANNOUNCER: Welcome to the BetterHealthGuy Podcast, where we take a deep dive into complex chronic conditions and explore ways to build resilience, improve vitality, and achieve better health. To stay updated on Scott's work, you can sign up for his newsletter in the show notes, where you'll also find ways to support the show and help make more episodes like this one possible. If you find the podcast valuable, please subscribe, rate, or leave a review as it helps the show reach additional listeners exploring similar questions.

The content of this show is for informational purposes only and is not intended to diagnose, treat, or cure any illness or medical condition. Nothing discussed on this podcast should be considered medical advice. As always, please discuss any health-related decisions with your own personal medical authority. And now, here's Scott, your BetterHealthGuy.

[INTERVIEW]

[0:00:57] SCOTT: Welcome to episode 232 of the BetterHealthGuy Podcast. If you are seeking new ways to create better health, you are in the right place. Today we explore Essential Detoxification for Better Health in a Toxic World with my guest, Dr. Haroldo Magarinos. Dr. Haroldo Magarinos is a Chilean-born periodontist, oral surgery specialist, biological dentist, and naturopathic doctor. He is an internationally recognized expert in microbiome science, environmental toxicology, and detoxification medicine.

With advanced training in periodontics, oral medicine, and surgical implantology, Dr. Magarinos has spent nearly a decade at the forefront of integrative health, pioneering the clinical understanding of how the oral-gut axis, environmental toxin exposure, and immune dysregulation converge to drive chronic disease.

His journey into this field became deeply personal when he developed an autoimmune condition in his early 30s, traced to years of mercury exposure acquired through dental practice, an experience that fundamentally shaped his mission and his science. An international educator in the fields of microbiome science, biological dentistry, and detoxification medicine, Dr. Magarinos serves on the Medical Advisory Board of Microbiome Labs, and is the co-founder and lead scientist of DetoxU, a physician-formulated detoxification system built to make science-backed effective detox accessible to everyone.

And now my interview with Dr. Haroldo Magarinos.

[INTERVIEW]

[0:02:44] SCOTT: Back in episode 187, Dr. Magarinos and I talked about all things microbiome. Today we're going to talk about all things detoxification, one of my favorite topics, and really how to create better health in a toxic world. Thank you so much for coming to the show, Dr. Magarinos.

[0:03:03] DR. MAGARINOS: Oh, thank you so much for having me again. It's a pleasure being here.

[0:03:07] SCOTT: First, tell us a little bit about your pain to purpose story. What happened in your life that led you to now being an expert on not only the microbiome but on detoxification and now creating tools that all of us will benefit from? Did you have a health journey or condition that ultimately was driven by a toxic exposure?

[0:03:30] DR. MAGARINOS: Well, yes. I've been working behind the scenes in detoxification for quite a while. It wasn't something I was openly talking about. It was my own personal journey, but also was becoming more of a thing after testing more and more people with toxicological analysis. And having the chance of also having this microbiome analysis on the side. I had those pieces of information side by side hundreds of times, and the connection was there every single time.

Personally, I'm a dentist. Any traditionally trained dentist will suffer from some level of toxicological exposure that I will say most of the times is significant. My case, 15 years drilling mercury fillings, non-stop. Few, I will say three, four at least a week, compound that for 15 years. And I was clueless.

And in one point on my early 30s, I developed an autoimmune condition. I developed neurological issues. Well, mood disorders. I started getting anxiety out of nowhere, depression. I was medicated at one point. And actually, those treatments, they did last for several years, and I was struggling. I was getting panic attacks out of nowhere. And that was completely debilitating when it comes to try to do your normal life. I don't think that many people that never had these situations will be able to understand how limiting are these conditions.

And they happened without any really potential explanation of why. Until I moved to United States, it was in the early years, I was able to get tested, and mercury levels were off the charts. Absolutely off the charts. There was no page that can hold those numbers. And I thought I was intelligent at that time, and I thought that those numbers were related to the tuna I was eating with my salads. How clueless we are that, even with that information up front and doing something on a frequent basis, that is clearly connected to the source of the issue. And I couldn't even connect the dots at that time right away. It took me a little bit. And when I realized that was, of course, a gamechanger. And that drove my initial focus.

And then, of course, having this information starting in Denver, seeing patients coming with their hair falling down with no reason whatsoever. And then I start testing for heavy metals, and so many things were showing up in the testing. And then again moving forward, fast forward 5, 10 years, that allowed me to fully understand that the connection was there all the time when it comes to immunological disorders, endocrine disorders, and anything related to health, the health status of the person, and toxins. And, of course, with the microbiome, make that very intricated, very profound connection.

And I realized something that is critical today, which is that you can't fix the microbiome without fixing toxicity issues. That was my first conclusion, and that's what was the reason why I started this endeavor of building what I built today and getting passionate about speaking about this.

[0:07:08] SCOTT: The tuna probably wasn't helping you either, but it sounds like that was not the primary source of the exposure. I think that was actually Tony Robbins' story, right? He was eating tuna and fish and all of that regularly, and also had a similar problem with heavy metals that Chris Shade talks about.

Let's set the stage a little bit in terms of terminology for people. Detoxification and drainage. And I know people have different ways of looking at these. I tend to think of detoxification more about kind of binding and removing things through the gastrointestinal system. We talk about binders. Some people will use detoxification as kind of a broader term to encompass the entire process.

But then I think about drainage more as supporting the body's innate wisdom around detoxification. Looking at things like the liver, the kidneys, the lymphatics, the extracellular matrix, the gut, the skin, the lungs, all of those ways that we have to eliminate toxins from the body. I think we all have a bucket that unfortunately these days is really overflowing from all of these exposures. Some of us maybe have a smaller bucket than others because of our genetics and epigenetics, which we'll get into more later.

And so, I think the goal really is to open as many drains in the bucket from both a detoxification and drainage perspective, so that, as Joe Carnahan says, we create some margin in that bucket, where it's no longer overflowing. And thus, we don't feel as symptomatic, and we move in the direction of health. How do you think of or how do you differentiate detoxification from drainage?

[0:08:51] DR. MAGARINOS: Yeah. Well, you said it exactly right. I mean, detoxification, it's the full process where the body will transform an element that is toxic for us into something that we can excrete out without causing further damage. That's the whole process of going through the phases and involving the different organs in this picture. That's detoxification in a nutshell. Drainage, it's just the exit doors that how we clear things out of your body and how we keep those doors open so things can leave and not getting clogged or recirculated, which is a huge deal today. And that's probably one of the main issues why people are getting more toxic.

And so, the fundamental difference here is that drainage is incredibly important. So all the process of detoxification can occur in the right way and has an exit door open, ready to use whenever needed, which is all the time, by the way. But that we have that door open so things they don't get back to our body. It doesn't pay off to support detoxification in any way if the drainage pathways are not open.

A lot of people, and myself included, we do believe that the detoxification process when it comes to support should start always with keeping the drainage pathways open. Now, fortunately, that's probably the least complicated part for most of people. Some people are chronically constipated. So we can argue on that. Some people, they have some challenges on the kidney level, and they can't excrete toxins properly from those pathways, or they can't sweat. Those people, of course, they have a challenge there, and they need to work on those things.

But many people, they just need to stay hydrated. They need to work on their microbiome. And there's so many fantastic tools that you can use nowadays that they don't require much of your day to get things done, and they will work very efficiently. I can mention many, of course, but that is probably the first step hydration, gut mobilization and supporting those elimination pathways. Sauna is amazing for drainage. They're so valuable. Especially heavy metals. Fantastic for heavy metal secretion.

[0:11:26] SCOTT: You kind of covered a little bit of my next question, which was perfect. So, I want to talk a little bit about this idea of a drainage funnel, as some people call it. We know that if you're constipated, that really needs to be addressed first. But I think a lot of times people think about, "Oh, I have these intracellular toxins, and I want to detoxify these things that are inside the cells." But maybe that's not the right order. You mentioned redistribution or mobilization. Maybe then we become auto intoxicated because we're removing or releasing these things from the cells, but then the body doesn't know what to do with them because we don't have the drainage pathways open. Should we start with the cells, or is there a process that we should go through in a very specific order?

[0:12:17] DR. MAGARINOS: In those scenarios I mentioned before where someone has a real struggle opening those exit doors and just allowing things to leave, at that level, of course, there's an additional step that I will consider before moving forward with anything more intentional at the cellular level to be able to take care of things more efficiently. I like to do this analogy that where when we want to run the engine of any car, you need all the gears in motion at the same time. Nothing can get stuck, or we can delay the motion for later. I like that synchronicity of these pathways all together. And if that's achievable, that's realistic.

I like to optimize the spinning of the wheels all at once. Meaning drainage pathways at the same time that we're supporting mobilization at the cellular level at the same time that we're working in our biliary tree, in our CYP system, in the enzymes related, in the activation of receptors. If you do this process continuously, then everything falls into the right place that needs to be feeding in the time that is needed. And so the process becomes optimal in full, not in just a segmented view.

I've seen that happens a lot in the industry that we want to support one that we see that could be more tricky than the other. I like the wheels spinning all together in an efficient way and all in motion so we can keep the synchronicity of the process coordinated. Again, there's some differences, there's an individual case by case analysis in certain situations. I completely agree with that. But in general sense, I like that concept of mobilizing things from point A to point B with everything taking care at once.

[0:14:22] SCOTT: In the more sensitive population though that are really struggling with chronic illness, are we generally saying the same thing that we want to make sure that the drainage pathways are open before we begin aggressively mobilizing?

[0:14:39] DR. MAGARINOS: Yes. Yes. And that's where the beauty of all the people that are becoming or already are knowledgeable about detoxification. They can give you a lot of support when you have a more challenging situation than the average. But the body is, most of the times, screaming for support.

I've seen this every single time with my protocols, other protocols. There's good protocols out there in the market. And whenever you introduce something, you see how things are literally flushed, mobilized. There's a burden that the person will feel is leaving the body. And they will feel lighter, they will feel more energetic most of the times. They start getting better.

And for those people who are not getting there quickly or in a more simplistic way, yes, that's where we need to start fine-tuning where the challenge is coming from, where the exposure is coming from. What is not working at the cellular level that we need to address more specifically?

[0:15:41] SCOTT: And I would say, out of many of the people that I've communicated with and work with, that maybe the key aspect of a protocol that's often missing is drainage. People will be on binders, they'll be on killing things. But when you say, "Okay, where's the liver, kidney, lymph matrix support?" A lot of times that's just missing. I think that's why it's exciting that we're talking about drainage.

I had the good fortune of working with an acupuncturist who was the one that first suggested Lyme disease to me now over 20 years ago, and she was an expert in drainage, and using homeopathic, German Homotoxicology, and all those kinds of things. For me, it's kind of been secondhand because the universe connected me with some brilliant practitioners. But a lot of people, I think, don't know what we're talking about when we're talking about drainage.

Let's talk a little bit now about genetics and epigenetics, and see what your thoughts are there. Is it that some of us just have bad genetics, and we're dealt a bad hand, and there's no way we can effectively detoxify? Or is it more likely that maybe we have some inefficiencies in our genetics that are really then epigenetically impacted by our environment, by stress, by all of the things that we deal with today, where then we just cannot detoxify well because our gene expression is being shifted by these epigenetic factors.

I think what I'm kind of coming back to the bucket analogy, some of us maybe come into this world with a smaller bucket or less effective detoxification than others. Is it that for those people the results or the potential of detoxification is really limited, or is it a combination of genetics and epigenetics? And then from your perspective, how important is assessing the genetics to really optimally detoxify? Is that productive? Is it necessary? Or does it maybe lead us down a path that leads to, in some cases, an internalization of brokenness that then epigenetically influences our gene expression in a negative way?

[0:17:56] DR. MAGARINOS: Yeah, it's actually both. There are some areas where this whole problem falls heavily on genetics, but most of the times it does fall on the epigenetic expression. There are some people that they're born with some genetic inputs that are not really going to be favorable for what they're doing detoxification-wise. And some people, they have null genotypes for GSTM1, GSTT1, things like that. That's going to affect the way you produce glutathione. And therefore, it's really going to have a negative impact on the way that you cope with environmental challenges. But, unfortunately, those are the least amount of cases.

Most people, they're dealing with - when it comes to genetics, they come to this expression of their genes that is really coming from certain environmental factors, including, of course, toxicological exposures from their own unique experience or from previous generations that pass these epigenetic expressions to them. They remain. Unfortunately, those genes active in future generations. And we see that actually pretty dramatically when it comes to glyphosate. We can talk about that later in detail.

But the fact that people are getting transgenerational damage right now is super concerning. But those SNPS are actually - and the amplification of those SNPS, it's coming from the environment and the things that we're getting exposed to on a daily basis. The microbiome has so much to say in terms of epigenetic expression. And there's so much disturbances in the microbiome nowadays. And, of course, everything else in the mix, like your lifestyle, your food intake, your water intake, the quality of those sourcing, etc. I think that epigenetics, they put much more weight in this problem than genetics itself. But both of them, they can become bottlenecks when it comes to try to move forward with detoxification if they are expressed.

I like genetic testing. I see a potential benefit in understanding these things and establishing a baseline when it's available now. But I don't like the narrative that those genes are going to dictate your destiny when it comes to the outcome in supporting detoxification. That's the part that I feel iffy about. That information is very powerful, but it can be powerful in both ways. And some people can get really anxious and really upset when they see that their biology by default is struggling with certain aspects of detoxification. I don't want anyone to believe, "Oh, I have this genetic expression right now. I don't have a chance." That's not the way I want people to feel. I want to bring hope, which is the opposite.

[0:20:55] SCOTT: And I think maybe I heard this in another lecture of yours. Interestingly, the way that the impact of toxicity and its effect on our genetics is passed on to not only your offspring, but then to, if your offspring is a female, the eggs that are in the female that will then have an effect on her child. Right? It’s at least three generations that are directly affected by these toxic burdens. Correct?

[0:21:25] DR. MAGARINOS: Yes. And without further exposure, which is the most concerning part. If the great-grandparent got exposed to a certain toxin, let's say glyphosate, in this case, without any additional exposure from the future generations, the epigenetic expression will be passed, and it will be amplified to each generation that comes down after. Unfortunately, the ripple effect is already in motion for the vast majority of the population even if you take care of everything needed to avoid at your best, the exposure to certain toxins.

[0:22:11] SCOTT: So, let's talk a little bit about kind of the key symptoms that you see in people that maybe lead you to thinking about a toxic burden, a toxic terrain in that person that's sitting in front of you. How much of chronic illness today is driven by environmental toxicity? I have a lens that says the vast majority, but maybe that's a lens that's not completely dialed in. But if we're thinking about things like chronic Lyme and mold illness, we think about ME/CFS, or fibromyalgia, or Alzheimer's, MS, Parkinson's, maybe ALS, even cancer, maybe even aging. Or in kids, autism, PANS, PANDAS. How much of these conditions at the root is being driven by toxicity?

[0:23:03] DR. MAGARINOS: I will say all of them. And I don't think I'm that off in my statement. I've been debating about this. And I don't want to become controversial. And I know there's a lot of angles that we look at when we evaluate all these conditions. But I love and I'm a passionate person about root causes. That's what I've been doing, everything I've been doing in my life. The moment I step out of traditional practice was with that in mind mainly. Where is the root cause? Why I'm treating mouth diseases in that case, in my particular case, for 15 years, and I don't see resolution? What are we're missing? What's the piece of the information that I'm missing that I'm not successful?

When it comes to toxicity factors and chronic disease development or progression, that, I think, they go hand by hand. Our biology - again, besides those genetic expressions that can come from birth and that we identify, and we can argue they were coming from our mothers to a certain extent, they're just triggered by something external. We were meant to be healthy by default. I believe in that. And I think, biologically speaking, with the way that we repair, heal, support, we are resilient, we cope in a normal fashion. And looking at previous generations and how they were dealing with their environment, the occurrence of chronic illness 50 or 80 years ago, I think we have a lot of evidence to say that all these conditions, they're profoundly connected to the toxicological elements.

And so, I think that that's something we need to look at in detail every single time we're assessing a person's health status. And it's widely missed in the traditional medical community. Nobody talks about toxicity as a root cause factor. And I think that we're missing the chance of really creating a positive impact in everyone's condition. No matter the kind, the nature, the progression, the severity. I think that all of them, they can be tremendously improved by addressing that.

And, of course, in my case, as I mentioned before, I told you that mood disorders came. And that seems to be so disconnected. Why a person should develop anxiety or depression out of toxicological exposure? Well, because we're blocking the fundamental pathways that the body needs for performing at cellular level or to produce the things that we need to send the signals in an optimal way.

GABA, dopamine, serotonin, they drop dramatically whenever any of these things are happening. We are getting exposed to any of these toxins. We are losing our neurotransmitter potential. And that happens on insulin and metabolic disease. And it happens on the liver performance, kidney performance. And then we can't even digest properly. We can't emulsify fats. And so on and so forth. In a nutshell, we can pinpoint all these conditions, PANS, PANDAS, fibromyalgia. We can go one by one. But the general answer is everything. It's toxicological related.

[0:26:41] SCOTT: So, what are the primary toxicants that you see impacting health in today's world? I know a lot of people talk about heavy metals. I personally feel that pesticides and chemicals are even more of an issue than heavy metals. From your lens, what are the top toxins impacting health today? And then what percentage of our body burden or overflowing bucket of toxicity is entering us exogenously or from the outside versus being created endogenously by either our microbes or our metabolic processes?

And then if we think about the exogenous toxins or toxicants coming in, what portion of that do you think is coming from air, water, food, things that we're putting on our skin? How much of that total exposure do we have control of in terms of air, water, filtration, changing personal products, personal care, cookware, those kinds of things? What can we do to change what's coming in externally in support of better health internally?

[0:27:52] DR. MAGARINOS: Well, it's a little bit complex. Because it's not the world we lived, or our parents or grandparents lived in 80 years ago, 60 years ago when it was a little bit less abundant in terms of toxicity factors. And then we could pinpoint and look at certain toxins and really connect the dots with certain conditions. Lead, for example. We knew that that was there, and it was not good for us. Mycotoxins had been around forever, and we're making them worse because we are becoming more energy efficient in terms of the construction standards. And we're not taking care. We're not taking the necessary measures that are needed to prevent the off-gassing of mold toxins inside our houses.

But I will say, averagely, 70% comes from an exogenous perspective. 60, 70. And I will put a weight of 30% endogenously in terms of toxins. And both are relevant. The problem is that the type of toxin, even though it could be relevant to a certain extent, is not directly relevant until we understand the biological factors that are unique for that person who is receiving toxins.

There are some people who are floating or swimming in certain toxins that they don't get much aggravated. And some people, they will just grab a nano particle of a certain toxin and they will fall apart. The level of sensitivity, the immune system tolerance, it's very individual. And that is something that I debate a lot with the analysis, where we say taking some average measurements, who is getting exposed to a lot of toxins? Who is getting exposed to normal amounts of toxins? And then how we define normal. Yes, it's normal for the average. But maybe that amount for that particular person, it's a huge deal. And some other people will receive way more than the average, but they still will be coping because they have a great way for excreting toxins, or they're producing glutathione in a huge amount. I don't know. There's so many variables there. It's hard to put weight on different toxins.

I know heavy metals, they have been usually looked with more intentionality or with a little bit more connection with health concerns. But now when it comes to environmental toxins, nowadays, realizing that we're producing 85,000 chemicals on a yearly basis in this country, man-made chemicals. Because heavy metals - you know what the part that I don't get that concerned about heavy metals is that they're ubiquitous. They're naturally occurring in the environment. And to a certain extent, our body learned how to deal with them.

And unless they're incorporated in your body in a very specific way through the digestive system, they can be eliminated, I will say, in a very predictable form for most people. Some people, I understand they have some challenges. Mycotoxins, the same thing. We live with them since forever. We know to a certain extent also how we deal with them.

Yes, there are some sensitivities, there are some genetics inputs, and there's some accumulation that is making the problem worse. But then again, they're biological factors. They're naturally occurring factors. But these Frankenstein molecules we're getting today in the environment that the body has never seen before, and now we need to untangle the chemistry and try to get something done, It's concerning.

And what is more concerning is that some of these chemicals, like glyphosates and bisphenols, they don't have a monoclonal activity. They have a non-monoclonal activity, meaning that they can create damage, more damage in lower amounts rather than higher amounts. Why? Because they're not seen by the body in lower amounts, but they're still very damaging for your body.

When they go unseen, it's when we get the worst part of them. And that is happening a lot today with all these different man-made chemicals. That the body doesn't see them. So we get them. They are even in a range of normality. They might be even detected, if they're detected at all, as normal. And they're creating more damage than the ones that we're seeing as high and we're taking action about. That is concerning for me.

[0:32:39] SCOTT: Just briefly before we move on to our next question, how much impact do you think we can have on reducing the incoming exogenous toxicants and toxins by changing some of the ways that we interact with the world? Is that going to make a big difference or not?

[0:32:58] DR. MAGARINOS: I will say that always a good idea to clear your air. I live with air purifiers. And I don't think I'm exaggerating when I'm using one in each room of the house. And quality matters here, by the way. That's so important. There's so much in the market. I'm not going to push any brand. But who is who in the market, too? So, we need to be mindful about that.

And the other thing is that yes, choosing good quality foods, clean. It's always a good idea. I mean, it's always better to reduce the toxic burden when possible. Unfortunately - and I don't want to be pessimistic in this area, but it's a reality right now. The amount of toxins we're getting on the daily basis that are coming from sources that we can't avoid, unless you are living in your house 24/7 and there's no life quality there. And even with that, I don't think it's going to really work that well. The amount of toxins we're getting today, it's way more than what we can avoid.

Maybe you can reduce 20%, 30% of the incoming toxins by making good decisions, which is great. Pays off. Absolutely. Give some room for your body to get some relief and take care of the other things better, but you're not going to be fully clean or fully avoiding everything just by making those decisions.

[0:34:27] SCOTT: Let's talk a little bit about those phases of detoxification. So, give us just a high level of phase 1, phase 2, phase 3. Are those phases only happening in the liver? Or are they happening in every cell of the body? And then building on that, I don't want to leave out what Dr. Kelly Halderman introduced me to many years ago, which was phase 2.5, which is the optimization of bile flow to get the toxins that are coming through the liver, getting put into the bile from the liver, to the gallbladder, to the small intestine, where we hopefully then can bind some of the toxins in the bile and minimize that enterohepatic recirculation and maximize our excretion. How important is that often-overlooked phase 2.5? And do you also suggest using things like bitters, or phosphatidylcholine, or other things to optimize phase 2.5?

[0:35:26] DR. MAGARINOS: This is a complex biochemistry process that I will try to explain in the simplest way possible, but this is how I see it, and in a cartoonish way in my mind. Anything that comes to your body, mostly everything, it's liposoluble, and will dissolve in fats. It will be managed by fats. Has some fat affinity. And that type of molecule with that affinity is very hard to eliminate out of the body, because your body has so many fat membranes and tissue. All your cells are made out of fatty tissue. And therefore, you want that toxin to not be fat soluble.

And the body created a way that it can manage these things and transform them into something that becomes water soluble so it can be excreted easily through the perspirations. You sweat and you take them out. Or through the urine, or through your stools. But it's easily manageable when it comes in that format. But again, naturally, they're not coming like that. What we have is phase 1, phase 2, and phase 3. And that 2.5, I love it, actually. We're going to cover that quickly.

But phase 1 is where you have a group of enzymes, we call the CYP system. And that group of enzymes, they grab a piece of the molecule and they bite a chunk of that molecule, if you want to put it that way. And that is how we call the process activation. We create a reactive piece on that molecule that can couple then to something else. It can be coupled with an additional molecule that we use in phase 2.

Now, this molecule, very reactive, will travel towards phase 2. In this process of traveling, because it's very reactive, can cause a lot of damage, oxidative-wise. That's why we need a lot of antioxidants around this molecule. So, we protect the body and the body structures and other cells from any potential damaging factors that this molecule now can bring. Literally, we created the worst foe in this phase. But it's needed because that's how we're going to couple something that will nullify the toxicological effects of this molecule and allows us to mobilize this easily.

The second phase, we add a reactive group. Can be a hydroxyl, an amine, a carboxyl. We add a group, a piece of a molecule that will attach to this parent compound. And now we make it because we transformed this molecule. We make it water soluble. Now we can manage this better. Now it's safer to be managed. And now it's safer to be excreted.

Worst place in the world will be trying to express that toxin in a liposoluble form. So now we have it water soluble. Now we can mobilize this thing. And that is when we push this molecule out of the cell and with this structure. And it goes mainly - the main pathway will be going towards the biliary tree. And that is the 2.5 step that is very critical, because there's so much stagnation right now. There's so much inflammation actually coming from the microbiome that is literally blocking from an endogenously perspective when we release too many lipopolysaccharides, we're releasing too many of these endotoxins. These endotoxins fundamentally can block this pathway and will neglect all the benefits and all the effort that was taken care by the first two phases in order to eliminate this molecule in an efficient form.

Now let's say we go through the biliary tree and we push this through the bile. And now this molecule is going through our excretion pathway. I would love to say that that's the end of the story, but that's where we call the phase 3 part of the process. And that relies on a few factors that unfortunately right now are also typically affected. Your efflux pumps, which are pushing things from your gut epitheliums and keeping things inside the lumen of your intestine so they don't get absorbed. That system pushes things and keeps them in the place that they're needed to be kept.

But also, we have a lot of issues with these damaging molecules we get all the time and the status of the microbiome that can lead to leaky gut. And we can open the gates, and now this molecule can come back. We have the estrobolome, which is huge for producing β-glucuronidase. It's very known in that part. And then can break the bond for these previously conjugated molecules and release them, and then they go back to the circulation.

And also, again, motility. If we have certain issues with our microbiome, we also might be struggling with moving things out of your body because the peristaltic movement movements and our flushing systems are clogged. And that is, in a nutshell, how this system works and the challenges we're seeing today in terms of moving things from point A to point B. And it's a very coordinated system, and it's very delicate. That's why we need to take care of this.

[0:40:51] SCOTT: And we tend to think of phase 1, 2, not really 3 so much. But I think we tend to think of those as liver. But is it not true that there are similar activities that are happening in all the cells of the body. This is not happening in just the liver.

[0:41:06] DR. MAGARINOS: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. And your lungs, and your kidneys, and your skin, all those organs are extremely connected to your detoxification capabilities. We have just more than one way, for sure.

[0:41:20] SCOTT: The other thing that I heard you say there, which I think is really a key piece of information, is that addressing intestinal hyperpermeability or leaky gut is really part of optimizing detoxification so that we're not then absorbing or reabsorbing some of these toxins, triggering the immune system, and so on. So, I don't think we think of fixing leaky gut as part of detox, but what I was hearing was it really is part of detox.

[0:41:49] DR. MAGARINOS: Oh, yes. Absolutely.

[0:41:51] SCOTT: That was a light bulb moment. You got a light bulb moment.

[0:41:55] DR. MAGARINOS: I would say it took me a long way longer for me to get to that conclusion. So, thank you so much. The microbiome is a critical piece of detoxification support. Every time that we think about any protocol that you want to be proactive with, you need to consider that part.

I think we have amazing companies today doing a great job supporting the microbiome in multiple ways. And so I think the tools are already offered. But if we don't take care of that, our microbiome can be our best ally or worst foe, depending on the status when it comes to managing toxins.

[0:42:32] SCOTT: I want to dive now, kind of double-click on phase 2. I think with phase 2, there's several different types of phase 2 processes. We think of methylation, people think of MTHFR. I think it's a little overblown to be honest with you. We have sulfation. I take Epsom salt baths. And some time back, Epsom salt baths really triggered a lot of kind of pain and detox reactions. And I didn't really understand like, "Oh, okay. If you have kind of an impaired sulfation pathway, you start supporting it, you start then moving some of these things through the system." One question that comes to mind is what do you think of when someone is reactive to sulfur compounds?

And then I also want to kind of highlight the importance of glucuronidation. If we're talking about mycotoxins, which is probably most people listening to this conversation, glucuronidation is really the most important phase 2 pathway. How important is it if we're thinking about optimizing a detoxification protocol that's really well-rounded? How important is it to support phase 2 pathways beyond methylation?

[0:43:47] DR. MAGARINOS: For sulfation. Sulfation, it's a critical pathway. And usually it's downregulated by a few factors. People who are typically struggling with tolerance for cruciferous vegetables or sulfur-rich foods in general, or sulfur-donating agents, even Epsom salts, they're dealing usually with a sulfite oxidase insufficiency. They're usually having something that is not allowing that CVS upregulation to work properly. And usually there's some missing pieces there.

One of the critical pieces I found over years that's missed, and actually, intentionally, I added that to one of my products, is molybdenum. Molybdenum is a very important co-factor for those pathways to operate properly. And we think we're getting those …. from foods, and that's not happening. It's just as missed as many other nutrients and cofactors that we need on a day-to-day basis.

I do believe that, again, supporting this cofactor availability, working with transdermal absorption of sulfur molecules little by little. Epson salts are actually a really good way for upregulating this pathway a little bit at a time compared to ingesting some sulfur-donating molecules.

If you're sensitive, you try to get cysteine, or MSM, or - it's just going to be a nightmare. That's not going to really pay off on the beneficial side. Again, because we can't speed the wheel and the speed that is needed because something is missing in that process. It's all about again, for me, synchronicity and mobilization in a transversal form, in a comprehensive form.

Those are tricks that we can use, but it's a critical pathway. It's have been recognized to be a critical pathway for spectrum disorders. It's one of the things that is recommended to work the most when you have a certain challenges there. And definitely, there's some epigenetic, genetic implications of this regulation in this process. But I do believe again that, with little bit of support adding the cofactors, you're going to get there.

With glucuronidation, I can't agree more with you. Glucuronidation is the most overlook and one of the most important conjugation pathways in the body. It's the biggest pathway. That's the real deal. It manages more toxins than any other pathway in the body. We're so hype about methylation, for example, which is important, but it's not nearly close to be as big as glucuronidation.

The problem with glucuronidation usually doesn't happen at the cellular level. We can have again some genetic issues on the glucuronidation process. Most of the times, because it uses a glucuronic acid molecule that is made out of glucose, it should be fairly available as a cofactor to produce these coupling molecule and utilize this pathway.

Problem comes with most typically either the glutathione production that works around this pathway protecting molecules that are massively passing through phase 1 towards phase 2. And that can create a complication around. And the other part is the estrobolome. Again, the microbiome. The microbiome, there's some 60 generas of microbes that can produce beta-glucuronidase. Beta-glucuronidase can cut the bond of any molecule that was previously conjugated in the glucuronidation pathway. And the interesting part is why. These guys are after the sugar. These are starving microbes that they need alternative food sources to get fed. And so when they're not getting the fibers, the healthy carbs, they work in this side of the equation to get fed.

[0:48:07] SCOTT: If we build on the air conversation, we know that our indoor environments generally are more toxic than the outdoor environments. Lack of ventilation, mycotoxins, chemicals, VOC's. But what about the outdoor air? Is it better? We've got car engines, car tires, jet fuel. Maybe the chemtrail conversation is moving from the realm of conspiracy theory and now being discussed at the highest levels of government. How do we mitigate the impact of the air we're breathing indoors and outdoors?

And then independent of the toxicity, is there also an aspect of kind of dealing with or mitigating toxins now where we need to also be incorporating things to support our lungs and our respiratory systems to thrive in today's world?

[0:48:58] DR. MAGARINOS: It's hard right now because it's multifactorial, as you mentioned. And these particles, some of them are so small that they bypass the regulatory elements we have at the lung tissue level. It became a real challenge. And I know this so-called conspiracy theories in certain areas are being proved to not be as conspiracy as we thought. I wish it was the opposite. But unfortunately, we have more testing capabilities. And we're seeing this tested in the environment more frequently and connected with these episodes of spraying the air with some X, Y, and Z substance. Or, again, the accumulation of certain particles. All these is going to challenge your lung tissues and, of course, your cells.

This is an entry point that is very quick. It gets into the cells and into your systemic circulation pretty quickly. Compared to ingestion, for example. It's more concerning in terms of the rapid response that we can mount over the exposure. Probably people who get exposed to this type of pollutants, air-borne pollutants, they will mount a response in the next 24 hours compared to ingestion that can take a little bit longer, or even be harder to accumulate to an acute level.

And I love some things. Yerba Santa, for example, as a botanical. Yerba Santa, it's a great mucus-supporting botanical. It can help just creating this natural barrier that insulates our alveolus and helps keeping those toxins out of our circulation. And then we just cough them out, which is a great way of eliminating toxins. They can just be mobilized. Or the immune system will phagocytize those things, or we're going to cough it out, or something else. But it's not going to get in our body as it typically happens.

[0:51:00] SCOTT: I wish I had your accent. I would sound a little smarter.

[0:51:06] DR. MAGARINOS: My accent gets in the way.

[0:51:07] SCOTT: Mold and mycotoxins, we know it's a huge factor in chronic illness. Do you think that our mycotoxin exposures are predominantly from buildings, from our homes, our workplace? Do you think that it's coming from food? How do those mycotoxins impact the lining of the gut?

I remember one of my biggest mentors, Dr. Ann Corson, saying that mycotoxins and the impact to the lining of the gut is like throwing sparks on a silk scarf. How important is mycotoxin detoxification for optimizing health?

And building on that, do you find that some people are becoming colonized with fungi from their external environment where the person can become the moldy building, can become the mycotoxin production factory? In which case, detoxification means both removal of the toxin, but addressing the source or the factory maybe with antifungals. Very much a kind of debated topic. And building on that sparks on a silk scarf, do toxicants drive intestinal hyper permeability?

[0:52:17] DR. MAGARINOS: Yes, they're coming from multiple sources, first and foremost. Food-borne mycotoxins are real. There are some specific ones. And that's when we test for them. We can differentiate not precisely but still get a certain sense where the source of exposure is coming from in terms of mold colonization. It could be from foods. And we have DON, for example. It's a huge one in foods. But then we have some things like Aspergillus, or Stachybotrys, or Penicillium. They're more ubiquitous to be present in water-damaged buildings and some construction materials rather than foods itself. That allows us to become more proactive in prevention, in avoiding certain things, or evaluating our house and see where is the mold colonizing.

Now, when it comes to mycotoxins and mold, it's two different things that they align in terms of creating damage when they're combined, but not necessarily a person who is dealing with mycotoxin issues is dealing with mold-related issues directly due to colonization, internal colonization.

If that person is getting colonized by mold, it means that the immune system dropped. The efficiency and the functionality of the immune system dropped into a certain degree. Maybe the food preferences are not the best ones. And then we need to look at them, especially sugary snacks, things like that, that will feed different forms of mold, and the microbiome must be out of balance.

And in those scenarios, I do believe that there's a benefit in using mold-reducing protocols. I like the antifungal protocols for that part, because we really can't get much done if we have an overabundance of mold internally.

With the mycotoxins, again, avoidance is key. And detoxification of them, optimizing glucuronidation pathways and others through detoxification support strategies are our best chance to cope with this, especially when it comes to binder. Selecting the types of binders that they have that magnetic activity towards grabbing those mycotoxins or capturing the bile and eliminating the mycotoxins that are trapped there, which is very, of course, a known pathway that was brought to light by Dr. Shoemaker at the time. And cholestyramine usage. Of course, that worked, because it was doing that.

And mold protocols, I like natural protocols when it comes to mold-regulating protocols. I don't really like much pharmaceuticals. They're a little bit too harsh for the liver. But I would agree, in some situations, they're actually the preferred form. And I'm not completely against. I'd like to take the first step with natural elements. But some antifungal, anti-mold protocols can work very well on the pharmaceutical side.

[0:55:10] SCOTT: And it sounds like it's a little bit of a vicious cycle where mycotoxins, other toxicants coming in can affect the intestinal hyperpermeability, the tight junctions. And then as a result of that, the impact on the overall system of those toxicants and toxins is greater because they're then able to pass through the barrier of the gut. It's kind of a chicken or the egg kind of situation.

You're an expert on the microbiome. I'm going to try to make sure I don't offend you with the wrong terminology. The microbiota are our microbes. The microbiome are all the genes of all the organisms in our microbiota. Right?

[0:55:52] DR. MAGARINOS: And I usually mix them all the time myself. Don't even worry about it. I do that all the time.

[0:55:58] SCOTT: I would say very few people today have a healthy microbiota or microbiome. Common to see low or no Akkermansia. I would say the vast majority of adults particularly have no Bifidobacteria. I've heard some lab personnel say that 95%+ of the samples they're testing today don't have Bifidobacteria. What is the role of the microbiome in detoxification? What's dysregulating our microbiome? Is it the toxicity? You mentioned this a bit earlier. Is it that toxicity that's driving the microbiome imbalance? Sounds like yes, it is. Can supporting the microbiome also play a role in detoxification? Does detoxifying then create a more robust microbiome?

And what are some of the strategies that you're finding being really effective today for supporting the microbiome? I know there are people that talk about certain organisms for binding mycotoxins or for mitigating various toxic effects on our bodily system. So, are there any products yet that are probiotic, organism-focused that are really intended to support our microbiome's ability to detoxify our bodies?

[0:57:19] DR. MAGARINOS: They are. Actually, I think that they're not recognized as such in many ways. Even the people who are producing them, I believe they don't understand the positive impact they are creating by bringing those microbes into their formulas. But the microbiome, it's a detoxification organ on its own, honestly. That's how I see it. It can produce different molecules, siderophores and others that can capture heavy metals and chelate heavy metals and bring them out of the body. It can upregulate, of course, organ functionality. And if it's in a good balance, it will help keeping the integrity of the gut lining. The stability of the mucin 2 layer. Akkermansia does that, for example. Akkermansia stimulates the old goblet cells for producing enough amounts of mucin 2 and keeping that protected.

And we know that most Faecalibacterium prausnitzii, Eubacterium rectale, those keystones are huge for producing butyrate, which again further regulates the immune system and also keeps the integrity of the gut lining in itself. We have Lactobacillus species like rhamnosus, for example, which can also help with mycotoxins and heavy metals. We know that they have that ability.

And there have been some products formulated specifically for supporting detoxification with certain bacterias. For some reason, they are not in the market anymore. I saw them. I was very excited about them, and they disappeared. I don't know if they're going to come back. But the species are still here. They're still available.

Bifidobacterium is huge for glucuronidation, for example. To another group of species, longum, adolescentis, that are typically found in probiotics that they can support those pathways in a great way. And also, of course, again, the balance of gram-negatives and gram-positives can relate to the inflammatory status of the body when it comes to lipopolysaccharide release and drive cholestasis or prevent cholestasis. And lastly, but not less important, immune system modulation. If your microbiome is in a good place, now your immune system is going to operate properly. And that it's a huge piece of the puzzle when it comes to detoxification itself.

Actually, like also spores. Spores, they can upregulate the production of short-chain fatty acids and other byproducts that are so needed for all these processes. The microbiome again, across the board, supports detoxification for any type of toxin known to men.

[1:00:04] SCOTT: I know you're a fan of the MegaSporeBiotic from Microbiome Labs. I know you work with and provide some guidance to them. We'll put that in the show notes for people as well. I'm assuming there's a great market opportunity for you to create a microbiome product specific to what you're doing at DetoxU. So, I'm anticipating that coming soon.

Very briefly, let's talk about fiber, the impact of fiber, whether it's soluble or insoluble on detoxification. And are there some diets, maybe let's say Carnivore, that have very little fiber and then potentially are not going to be supportive of optimizing detoxification? Do you have any concerns there or no?

[1:00:48] DR. MAGARINOS: A huge concern. The push back on fibers, it's concerning in so many levels. Microbiome-wise, of course, detoxification-wise. We have soluble and non-soluble. Soluble fibers are more like this mesh, where we can trap toxins and just secrete them out. And it helps so much. Actually, creates a lot of support for the actual cellular processes to not get overwhelmed. It does play a huge difference when it comes to supporting detoxification. But also, we have the non-soluble fibers which will stimulate motility, will allow this phase 3 to work properly, plus feeding the microbiome and all these beneficial species that we spoke about that are so intricately connected to the detoxification processes.

When it comes to Carnivore, of course, you're neglecting because you don't see the cellular need of using those type of nutrients. You're neglecting the intake of certain foods or certain nutrients that yes, they don't play a direct role in our energy production, our cellular pathways. But that doesn't mean they're disconnected from our own biology, from an external standpoint connecting with the microbiome and other pathways that are so needed. And that's my concern. I think they're not putting this together pretty well.

[1:02:13] SCOTT: Many of our listeners are dealing with chronic infections like Lyme disease, or EBV, or various fungal, or parasitic overgrowths. Maybe SIBO, for example. The question for you is are these chronic infections present in the body because of the toxic terrain? Are the microbes the root cause of our chronic infections? Or is the toxicity the root cause? And when we work then on the terrain and improving the terrain, are we essentially then implementing kind of an indirect antimicrobial strategy as well? We're not a good host for those microbes anymore if we have a more optimized terrain.

[1:02:58] DR. MAGARINOS: It's that. Exactly. And I love the way that this question comes because it's being my question. And I don't have a real answer for that. I don't know what is first, the chicken or the egg. I don't know if what happened first, if toxins altered the microbiome or the microbiome is altering the modulation of toxins. I have a guess, if you don't mind. I think that toxins come first. That's my guess. Toxins will create imbalance first, and microbes will follow, and they will amplify that toxicological element. That's my guess.

Now again, these guys when they're not in balance, they become not really benign for our detoxification needs. And then opportunistic infections can arise because of the imbalance. And these altered patterns, actually they probably align to a terrain condition that is off because it's overwhelmed by all these toxins coming in all the time.

Again, anyone that worked with the Petri dish, you need to provide a nice setting in the Petri dish if you want to grow the microbes that you're putting in. Otherwise, it doesn't work. Terrain, it's not only important. I think it's critical. It's foundational for balancing both the microbiome and toxicity.

[1:04:21] SCOTT: And while I think maybe the concept is changing a little bit in the pandemic, I know Dr. Klinghardt for many years has talked about how candida and parasites and other things can kind of protect us from heavy metals, for example, and bind to them. Maybe there are scenarios where the body actually benefits from a microbial overgrowth, and that has less detrimental impact than that toxicity not being bound to something.

I want to sidetrack for just a moment and talk about SIBO and SIFO. These small intestinal overgrowths, maybe even dysbiosis in the large intestine. How much in your opinion of these conditions is related to dysbiosis or dysregulation of our sinubiome and our oral biome? And how much is toxicity driving imbalance in our upper biomes that then contributes to dysregulation and imbalance in our lower biomes?

[1:05:20] DR. MAGARINOS: They're all connected. Definitely, they interact, and they oversee each other. And SIBO, it's a consequence of a lack of performance at the organ functionality level. That is my stance. I'm very clear about it. The microbes are not overgrowing on their own just because they woke up one morning and they decided, "Okay, I'm going to take over this place. We're going to start fermenting twice as much in the small bowel because I just thought it was going to be a good idea."

It is a result of an imbalance because the housekeeping process that comes with the normal production of stomach acid and the normal production of bile mainly. There's other factors. It's not coming in the right amount with the right timing. And therefore, those controlling agents are allowing this overgrowth to occur. And again, time matters. If we're not efficient in our digestive pathways, we're going to extend the time that this food is in contact with these microbes. And then exponentially, they're going to grow beyond 10 elevated to the 4, 10 elevated to the 5s CFUs per deciliter.

[1:06:35] SCOTT: And I'm going to maybe go even one step further in what you were talking about and say that a nervous system that is constantly in sympathetic overdrive, that that also then has an effect that results in these overgrowths because we have issues with our migrating motor complex, and bile flow, and all of these things. And so maybe SIBO and SIFO is actually the result of other upstream things and not itself the cause.

[1:07:04] DR. MAGARINOS: Absolutely. Autonomic nervous system dictates so much what's happening in terms of the regulation of the activity of the organs in the digestive process and more. Absolutely. And again, toxins, they also will create that imbalance to a great deal of extent.

[1:07:20] SCOTT: Let's get your thoughts on COVID and long COVID. Do you see long COVID as the persistence of SARS-CoV-2 in some people? Is it a spike protein toxicity? Is it the unmasking of things like Epstein-Barr, Bartonella, and mycoplasma that were previously controlled? And how much does toxicity play a role in someone moving from acute COVID to long COVID? And then is spike protein itself now at the top of the leaderboard of toxins that negatively impact human health?

[1:07:57] DR. MAGARINOS: COVID as a virus should have a certain lifespan. But the persistent comes with the spike protein persistence mostly. And spike proteins are on its own a toxin. It's a form of toxin. And the persistence occurring even away from the presence of the virus is very concerning because now we see that we become a factory for those spike proteins. And cells are becoming damaged, and we have more senescent cells accumulate in the body. And that interacts with everything performance-wise.

We can see any branches in terms of immune system functionality, metabolic performance, etc. All these things that get affected due to that issue. And it binds to all these receptors, ACE2, and CD17, and neuropilin 1, etc. All these receptors that will drive this endothelial dysregulation imbalances. And then, therefore, coagulation and all these circulatory issues we see as a ripple effect of spike protein high levels.

And of course, when you're dealing with spike proteins as any other toxin, you're using resources from something that uses so many resources on a normal basis, which is the immune system. Now if your immune system has nothing left to to work with because it's overwhelmed by the presence of this type of toxin or any other, then opportunistic conditions can occur. And now you see Mycoplasma, and EBV, and HPV, and all these other conditions that probably they were under control, they were subclinical. And now they can arise because the surveillance system is off. And that applies to Lyme as well. This huge flow of Lyme that we see nowadays in EBV. And it's not only because we detect more. We have more testing tools. It's because our immune systems are getting overwhelmed more than ever.

[1:10:00] SCOTT: So, I was going to ask you this question later, but we'll just do it here. Can we anticipate seeing some spike protein tools coming from DetoxU in the future? I'm ready.

[1:10:12] DR. MAGARINOS: This is a huge concern for us, because it blends us in the whole toxicological conversation, both in the treatment and the testing. Definitely, we are working on this right now.

[1:10:27] SCOTT: I believe that autoimmunity is the body's best attempt to protect us from infection or from toxins. From your perspective, what is the role of toxicity in autoimmunity? Do you see the resolution of some autoimmune conditions when we focus on detoxification? And then I think we could even extend that question to talk about chronic inflammation, about mast cell activation syndrome, and histamine, and all of these other inflammatory mediators, where essentially toxicity is driving immune dysregulation. Can blockages in our detoxification pathways lead to immune reactions?

[1:11:11] DR. MAGARINOS: Yes, absolutely. Well, from an immunological standpoint, any person who is dealing with a level of toxicity that is higher than the standard. And it's really hard to define standard. But when that happens, usually we drive the balance towards TH2. And that puts us on a very active mode that leads the immune system to go after even our own tissues.

And I think it's an attempt, as you said, of trying to protect ourselves in a way, but it unfortunately creates this collateral damage that we can see clinically in many ways, including in the skin, and tissues, and ligaments, etc. And so on and so forth. And again, because of the toxins, the toxic activity is chronic, the activation and the imbalance becomes chronic. And we have this dominant state on the TH17 or TH2 that doesn't leave.

And when it comes to mast cell activation, actually environmental toxins, they degranulate mast cells. They can release the histamine granules in larger way, and that triggers them, all these immunological expressions Again, this is not happening because the body decided to do something against us. It's trying to mount a response that is equally large as the threat that is being exposed to.

With that in mind, any person that has an immunological condition needs to think at least for a moment where this threat is coming from. And I believe that if not all the time, most of the times, they're going to be surprised to see the levels of toxins that are accumulated in the body.

[1:12:54] SCOTT: What is the role of sympathetic dominance in detoxification? If we're in a fight, flight, or freeze mode, is that negatively impacting our rest, digest, detoxify, and heal? And is working on the nervous system, and increasing parasympathetic tone, and vagal tone, is that supporting detoxification? And then building on sympathetic dominance and detoxification, I've heard Dr. Klinghardt talk about how all of the non-native frequencies, the electromagnetic radiation, electromagnetic frequencies, that that may be driving a sympathetic dominance at a cellular level. Do you also see people needing to reduce their EMR, EMF exposures to optimize their detoxification in addition to working on increasing their parasympathetic tone more globally?

[1:13:47] DR. MAGARINOS: Absolutely. All these things, they have a negative impact in the detoxification pathways. Again, the chicken or the egg question. Are toxins driving autonomic dysregulations, nervous system dysregulation? Or is the autonomic nervous system, which is a building up or allowing the buildup of toxins in the body in a larger scale? Really debatable.

I think that both were working in a certain dance that they complement each other. But toxins, when they're seen by the immune system, they will drive the imbalances on the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system. And it usually leads to sympathetic activation state, which again blocks so many things related to detoxification itself, like liver activity, and so on and so forth, and immune activity. That is a problem on its own.

Now when it comes to radiation, EMF for example, it not only affects the cellular performance and the ability for the body to detoxify, but also alters the terrain of the microbiome or of the microbiota, as you said better than me. That is a huge deal, because now, again, we're affecting one of the core elements that allows the toxification.

Of course, not only that. Mentioning also the cellular performance that gets affected. And that also this EMF, they have an activity towards magnetic fields that also are impaired or aggravated even more by the presence of these heavy metals and other particles that are magnetically reactive, that they do have magnetic properties. They can cause a huge burden on the tissues that are accumulated over time, heavy metals, for example, if we're exposed to these magnetic fields. Because they are reactive on their own because of the presence of these molecules.

[1:15:46] SCOTT: And what I also heard there was that EMFs, EMR, they are negatively impacting our microbiome, which I would say is another light bulb moment. Very important to think about. If we extend the nervous system conversation into more the mental-emotional realm, trauma, Childhood Adverse Experiences, or ACEs, do we also need to work on detoxifying our mental and emotional bodies in order to effectively detoxify our physical bodies?

[1:16:17] DR. MAGARINOS: It's all connected. Mind, body, spirit. I think that that's something that needs a separate, because it's not connected on its own. Just because of level of expertise that you need to bring in order to resolve those issues. But the rebalancing process needs to occur in conjunction. Otherwise, we have a certain level of disconnection that will perpetuate the problem to a certain extent.

[1:16:42] SCOTT: You mentioned hypercoagulation earlier. I think of that as less oxygen, less nutrient delivery to the cells, poorer waste removal from the cells. We're essentially starving the cells. And on the other side, we have garbage sitting on the curb that no one is coming by to collect. And that garbage ties into our conversation on detoxification.

Given, especially today in the pandemic era, the significant number of people that are dealing with hypercoagulation, and fibrin buildup, and even that kind of extends into the spectrum of biofilm, should we be exploring the optimization of blood flow and addressing hypercoagulation to drive the optimization of our detox systems?

[1:17:29] DR. MAGARINOS: Absolutely. It's interesting how spike proteins actually they mimic mycotoxins in so many ways. And when we analyze the panels with different markers, like MMP9 or VEGF1, etc., we can see the mimicking in terms of the microvascular damage that is created. It's interesting on its own.

But using things like, for example, boosting nitric oxide can be very powerful for optimizing these issues. And it's something that it's also broadly overlooked. And remember that above 40 years of age, the arginine pathway doesn't really work well. So, we need to rely on our mouth microbiome and the nitrate conversion here to reduce nitric oxide. And also, our stomach acid makes the final step. If someone is using PPIs, or it's in a sympathetic state, or dealing with a lot of toxins, that might not be occurring properly. Supplementation can help a lot in that level. But also, again, these areas of conversion are critical.

[1:18:30] SCOTT: If we use that secondary pathway where we're looking more at nitrates, nitrites, and nitric oxide, we can bypass that arginine pathway for nitric oxide that you just talked about. We had a conversation with Beth Shirley on the podcast before. And I've actually taken her product this morning, and do every day. And I think it's fantastic. How important is looking at the mitochondria when we're talking about supporting detoxification?

There's a lot of focus, and maybe some of this I'm just exploring because it's kind of my new area of interest. But beyond just looking at supporting the mitochondria, now looking at things like NAD, NR, NMN, niacinamide, how are we getting the energy currency we need to support a lot of these pathways in the body, including detoxification? Do we need to be thinking about the mitochondria to be able to detoxify efficiently?

[1:19:22] DR. MAGARINOS: Absolutely. And that's something that also I see that's overlooked when we look at detoxification support protocols. If you don't have energy to do everything we have been discussing already, it's not going to happen. It's just not going to happen.

Now, unfortunately, toxins, they impair mitochondrial function directly. They block the ability for the mitochondrias to perform the energy production. And also, they bring a lot of oxidative stress, which is why it's so relevant to support with antioxidant pathways or upregulating NRF2 to produce on our own antioxidant response elements and activate these pathways properly. So we cope and we mount responses that protect ourselves from that perspective.

[1:20:10] SCOTT: Some suggest that chronic illness is either the result of toxicity, or deficiency, or both. So, what role does nutrient deficiency play when we're thinking about the accumulation of toxicity? If we have vitamin, nutrient, particularly mineral deficiencies, is that going to make it more difficult for us to detoxify? And should we be thinking about things like trace minerals as part of a well-orchestrated detoxification strategy? I'm also going to throw in that I think B vitamins are very much missed in the detoxification conversation as well. What are your thoughts there about how much nutrient deficiency perpetuates toxicity?

[1:20:56] DR. MAGARINOS: It's another critical factor and plays a dual role, because toxins are thieves of nutrients by definition. And they displace critical elements. Glyphosate is a key chelator by default. But also, if we don't support those nutritional needs, especially at the beginning of any detoxification protocol, not exclusively, but at least the beginning, we're going to be deficient in activating these pathways properly. The functionality, the optimization, it's not going to happen. We're going to be deficient. And we might not even get anything done because of that reason.

[1:21:33] SCOTT: Let's talk about testing. What tests do you think today are kind of the leading-edge tests to look with a broad brush for environmental toxicity? Any you consistently use and find helpful? I know a lot of times metal testing, for example, or even mycotoxin testing is provoked. And particularly, that provocation with metal testing could have some downsides. I'm curious if you've thought about or if anyone's used your remover product, the drainage product to maybe increase the excretion of some of these toxins before you collect the sample for these labs.

And I also heard a rumor that you were working on some tools in the testing assay realm as well. So, tell us a little bit more about environmental toxicant testing. What should we be looking at to assess our levels of toxicity?

[1:22:24] DR. MAGARINOS: The ways that we can test for toxins are multiple from blood work analysis, hair analysis, urine sample analysis. I prefer urine is more consistent, I believe. Not necessarily not a good analysis that you can put in conjunction with all the other ways that you can sample body tissues and get information out of them.

I like mass spectrometry for analyzing toxins because it creates that pool of very specific molecules. As I said before, some of these molecules are very nasty in the way they behave. They have dual polarity. They move around. They're very tiny. And therefore, you need a very sensitive system to capture them and analyze them in any biological sample. And that's why mass spectrometry for me has been the gold standard for the past probably 10 years. And it's getting better and better. That's the other thing.

And with that in mind, the remover - actually, I have not used it as a provocative agent, which is actually a great idea. Thank you so much. I like to use something gentle to provocate, like glutathione, or sauna session prior to the collection of the sample. Strong chelators are a little bit tricky. Because if you don't know the baseline of the person and the status of the organs, you might push too much. And it can be a little bit detrimental. I'm not also a huge fan of using chelators as part of the detoxification process overall because they can bound toxins, but not necessarily. They will support the excretion of those toxins or the processing of those toxins through the organ functionality. That part is concerning.

[1:24:10] SCOTT: Let's have you pick maybe your top three favorite adjunct detoxification tools. Things like sauna, coffee enemas, colon hydrotherapy, ionic foot baths, lymphatic drainage. What are the other things? Now we're even getting into the realm of talking about things like EBOO, and INUSpheresis, and TPE, or Total Plasma Exchange. What other kinds of tools would fit nicely with the products you've created that we're going to start to talk about next?

[1:24:41] DR. MAGARINOS: I'm an old-fashioned guy. I like sweat. I like traditional saunas. And they have so much evidence. I think that even though we're trying to make this more technologically advanced and more fashionable, which I think all these tools, they have a place and a benefit depending on the condition. I like those old-fashioned tools that they still prove that they're effective and they're safe to be used. And they have a lot of research behind.

Again, colonics are great. Colonics are awesome for mobilizing things trapped in the intestines and displacing things. Coffee enemas are a little bit more in-house type of system, which works, by the way. Sauna sessions are awesome for that. Infrared sauna can also bring a lot of benefits into the equation. But the heat part is very important. The heat part is consistent.

And the third, which I know is so obvious, but still so important, exercising. And when it comes to exercise, not going to a CrossFit class. That's not really that necessary. You need just to walk. Need to just move. And my wife actually does this a lot. She moves like a - walks like a clown with the arms, and the legs, and all these silly movements. Well, because she learned a lot about movement. And she taught me a lot of tricks.

And when you walk like that, you look silly. Yeah. But if you have the personality, do it. Because opening those lymph vessels and mobilizing the fluids in your tissues that might be trapped, great way of dealing with these accumulated toxins.

[1:26:21] SCOTT: Let's hope that she's detoxifying while she's doing that.

[1:26:25] DR. MAGARINOS: Absolutely. Well, I think so.

[1:26:29] SCOTT: Let's talk now about some of the DetoxU products that you've created. We're going to touch on each of the formulas. I do want to suggest people go to the website and look. It's great. Because every ingredient, you can see exactly what the rationale was. But I think people think about these tools as maybe detoxification tools. But to me, it seems like they're much broader than just removal in that they're also designed and formulated to help us deal with the damaging properties of these toxicants in the body, meaning the oxidative stress, meaning the mitochondrial damage. Are they also protecting us from the toxicants that are still in us, still moving their way through and out, which is also optimized by your formulas?

[1:27:16] DR. MAGARINOS: Yes. And you need to cope with the damaging factors, otherwise it nullifies the whole process. And that's one of the reasons why we get toxicological burdens accumulated in the body, because they're hijacking the core elements we need for detoxification.

[1:27:32] SCOTT: Let's talk then about your BINDER product. I personally have now taken, I don't know, six or seven bottles of your products over the last many months, and really like them. What was the intent of BINDER? Does it primarily stay in the gut, or is there some systemic effect? I'm thinking like the shilajit providing some trace minerals that's helping even beyond the gut, for example. What are some of the key things that you put into this formula? Is the phosphatidylcholine soy or sunflower derived?

And then what do you say to people that see maybe zeolite, and they think, "Oh no, that has aluminum." Or they see bentonite, and they think, "Oh, that also has heavy metals." Should we be concerned about that? Do we need to be concerned with this product if someone has a shellfish allergy because of the chitosan? Talk to us about the BINDER product.

[1:28:27] DR. MAGARINOS: The BINDER was formulated with the intention of creating a safety net. Again, phase 3, when we just did all these heavy lifting and moving things out. And then we're focusing on pushing these things out of your body. And when all these elements can interject and make that molecule go back to the circulation, that's the worst-case scenario possible for detoxification.

And therefore, the BINDER. With its magnetic properties, because we use all these minerals, chitosan, all these minerals and molecules, chitosan, activated charcoal, zeolite, silica, bentonite clay, all these things, they have different types of polarities. And they can magnetically attract different types of toxins depending on their nature. And so, they become so enlarged that they just can't do anything else but leave the body because they can't cross any membranes, any barriers anymore. That is a protective system on its own. And works with any type of toxin across the board, heavy metals, mycotoxins, environmental toxins of multiple kinds.

Chitosan actually is an analog, a natural analog of cholestyramine. It will sequestrate this bile acid trap molecules that we can eliminate now more easily out of the body. It works in a great way in supporting this.

Chitosan, actually it's a non-allergenic part. It has the non-allergenic part of the sea shell, the crustacean, outer shell structure. But still, because of liability and also regulatory conditions, we need to add that allergy statement. I will say be mindful, depending on the type of the severity of your allergy. Consider that as a factor. But in a strict sense of the molecule, it does not contain the allergenic molecule that is typically raising the flag on people with crustacean allergies or sea food allergies.

And the molybdenum, it's added for the part of the cofactor that we spoke earlier in the sulfation pathways. And the shilajit does has a systemic effect. Although, it was not my primary reason for adding that ingredient into the formula, but you it also provides support for the tight junctions. And fulvic acids are huge for that, and mineral replenishment, and so on and so forth. I love shilajit. I mean, shilajit is so, so cool as a molecule.

[1:30:56] SCOTT: And one of the things that I also understand about these products is that you have the capsule of the BINDER product is different from the other products. If you're taking BINDER, and REMOVER, and a FOCUS product that we're going to talk about in a minute, that you can take them together, which is not what we normally do with binders, and that the non-binder products start to have their effect in the body before the BINDER actually releases its contents 30 or 45 minutes later. Am I understanding that correctly?

[1:31:28] DR. MAGARINOS: Absolutely. Yeah. When we analyze the processing of toxins, you want to get to the duodenum. Doesn't really make sense to open the capsule earlier. It doesn't bring much benefits before that space. And so we used the time release capsule that delays the opening, and so allows actually the activation of the other ingredients of the other products to open the pathways beforehand. And now the BINDER is there in the duodenum level ready to craft the toxins that are being eliminated or excreted out of these phases.

[1:32:01] SCOTT: What do you say to people who have the theoretical concern that taking a binder with charcoal and some other things daily, long-term, could actually create some deficiencies in minerals or fatty vitamins like D, A, K, and E? Is that something that we need to be concerned about when we're using something like your BINDER product?

[1:32:24] DR. MAGARINOS: I will say that it's a controlled risk. And yes, there's potential lowering on certain nutrients, but now you know you're using something that might take out some of those nutrients from your body, and you can replenish them accordingly. The problem is the toxins. The toxins are going to steal all your nutrients without no control or supervision, whatsoever.

When we weigh things in terms of benefits, I do prefer to use something that will reduce the toxins that are stealing my nutrients all day long. And now I can replenish the nutrient that might be pulled out by the usage of the binder compared to having these toxins and no control, whatsoever, on what they're doing.

[1:33:04] SCOTT: And isn't the shilajit giving back some of the minerals that might be otherwise bound?

[1:33:10] DR. MAGARINOS: Yeah. The main intention of the fulvic acids in shilajit was for protecting the gut lining integrity. That was my primary reason. But the second benefits is just we get minerals and other things added. But I would still use some extra support for minerals and vitamins across the board throughout the process.

[1:33:30] SCOTT: In the Shoemaker community, positively charged Cholestyramine and Welchol are used to detoxify mycotoxins and endotoxins. Generally, that community has suggested that there is not a place for natural binders because they largely have a negative charge. So, is the charge of the binder the only mechanism through which binding occurs?

[1:33:57] DR. MAGARINOS: No. No. It's a combination. But you have a blend of both type of molecules in the binder formulation. You do have negatively and positively charged molecules there. But it's not the only way because also stimulates as aloe and the shilajit. It not only creates that magnetic field or that safety net, but also adds this protective barrier towards the epithelium of the intestines, which is critical for allowing those toxins to be eliminated.

There's more than one benefit when you use a binder like this, and such a comprehensive binder like this. And of course, it's not meant to be used alone. That adds another layer of support with the other products in combination, which is where we get the best of the benefits.

[1:34:52] SCOTT: You also work with Microbiome Labs. They have their bovine immunoglobulins. There's other companies as well that are very good. SBI Protect and a number of them out there. But is there potentially some synergy between using a binder in a protocol like your binder product and also using bovine immunoglobulins that may have a different mechanism through which they're binding things in the body?

[1:35:17] DR. MAGARINOS: Yeah. I mean, the serum-derived bovine immunoglobulins are great for lipopolysaccharides. That's their job actually to bind those molecules out of the body. I think the combination is actually great. When you can combine these protocols and use additional resources to cope with any type of elevation, it will help. It will definitely pay off.

[1:35:41] SCOTT: So that is the BINDER product. Relatively straightforward. Conceptually, I think it's a great tool. But I think the REMOVER product is my favorite in the line that you've created. At least at this point, it's my favorite. This is the drainage piece, that phase 1, 2, 2.5, and three that we talked about for really supporting the liver, the kidneys, all of those channels of elimination. Walk us through that formula.

By the way, in people that do Autonomic Response Testing or other muscle testing, I found this product to just be one of my absolute favorites. But talk to us a little bit about what your thought process was in terms of what's in the REMOVER product. Why are you using both phosphatidylcholine? And I'm not sure earlier if you answered the question about soy or sunflower? So let's touch on that. But I know you have phosphatidylcholine and also sunflower lecithin that's in this product. Is that there to support cell membranes? Is it there to increase the absorption of some ingredients? Is it there to support the phase 2.5? Talk to us about what ingredients are supporting our detox organs. Why did you put glutathione in it? How are we recycling it back to its reduced form after it becomes oxidized? And then you even went further and you included mitochondrial, and antioxidant, and mast cell support. I mean, so much stuff in here. Talk to us about REMOVER.

[1:37:09] DR. MAGARINOS: It is a complex formula. And that was the first formula I started working with. And again, that was because I wanted to bring something to the table that people can use without the exhaustion, and taking so many pills, or doing so much, and taking care of things. That I thought detoxification could be simplified. Or at least I asked myself that question. And it ended up becoming the REMOVER.

The REMOVER works. It's a comprehensive support for detoxification, for cellular detoxification. Supporting the organs that matter the most, I will say, for that process. I consider three main pillars in order to bring toxins out and excrete them, and so they can be eliminated. Of course, the main one, the liver. The liver does so much. We need to support the receptors within the hepatocytes to keep things moving.

And so, I looked at the research available level and saw which molecules they had the most amount of evidence in supporting those receptors, upregulating functions. And we put them there. Dandelion, for example, is amazing. Milk thistle. We added phosphatidylcholine intentionally also for bile flow upregulation. DIM is also there for the same reason for activating receptors in the hepatocyte, both apical and basolateral.

And so, we created that system where we activate with these hepatocyte receptors to mobilize bile in an optimized way. The toxins that are going along with bile are also mobilized properly and preventing cholestasis, which is again the worst scenario possible for detoxification support.

Sunflower lecithin actually was added, as you asked for. Bioavailability of those certain molecules. There's a little bit of a difference between some of these botanicals in terms of their affinity. Some of them are more resinous, they're more oily, some of them are more water soluble. And bringing all these molecules into the body can be a little bit challenging in the combination format, and also to blend them and put them in a capsule without breaking their properties.

And I like this beautiful system of using the actual botanicals and allow the membranes to receive the input as needed. And then we consider also the kidney support. Goldenrod, dandelion, again. Beautiful mild diuretics. They prevent mineral loss while they're improving diuresis and flushing these toxins more efficiently.

And then I thought, "Okay. But the cells are needed also to be supported." Because if you don't support mitochondria, you get nothing done. So, then we added the most significant evidence-based nutrient molecule that we know till now that supports mitochondrial function and mitogenesis, which is PQQ. We put that there. We were super excited about PQQ.

And then glutathione. We added glutathione. But most of the times, glutathione will be broken down into the three essential amino acids. We need to put that together. And so, we support also the enzymes that work around glutathione binding. And then we thought, "Okay. But we're going to give the glutathione. The person will put it together." But we want that molecule to be very efficient. Alpha-lipoic acid, that can recycle glutathione. So, you can reduce it and use it once more, and once more, and once more. And again, whole ingredient formula all together combined produces this very comprehensive effect in supporting all these organs and cells, and optimizing their performance without overwhelming their pathways, which is critical.

[1:40:53] SCOTT: Yeah. Like I said, I mean, it's my personal favorite at this point in time in your line. Phosphatidylcholine soy or sunflower derived?

[1:41:01] DR. MAGARINOS: Sunflower.

[1:41:02] SCOTT: And the sunflower lecithin that's listed on the ingredients separately, is that really just coming from the phosphatidylcholine ingredient as well?

[1:41:09] DR. MAGARINOS: Yes. It's needed for getting a certain percentage of phosphatidylcholine that is present there.

[1:41:16] SCOTT: So, let's focus our attention now on your three remaining products. Notice what I did there with focus. So, MOLD FOCUS, INDUSTRIAL FOCUS, and HEAVY METALS FOCUS. And that's the order that they're on the website. I'm going to go through them that way. First of all, your FOCUS formulas have what you call your Cellular Detox Matrix, which consists of the alpha-lipoic acid, the phosphatidylcholine, the PQQ. You talked about why those are critical in the other products as well, but that's in all of these focus products also.

Let's start with MOLD FOCUS, which I personally feel like it's named wrong. I think it's more like MICROBE FOCUS. Feels like it's less of a detox product and more of a product to help with that microbiome and different organisms, maybe even bacteria, and viral, and parasitic overgrowths, for example. So, talk to us a little bit about your thought process with MOLD FOCUS. Is this getting into the realm of the fungal colonization piece that we talked about earlier? And is my understanding correct that it really is broader than that?

[1:42:26] DR. MAGARINOS: It's broader than that. And yes, I agree with you. I've been thinking about these many times renaming the product because it is a microbial balancing protocol, not just MOLD FOCUS. But here's the problem. When I talk about microbial balance or microbial focus, people think about antimicrobials. And I don't want to create that concept, like at least not in the full extent of that concept. I want people to understand that this is just a balancing product that allows two things mainly.

One, preventing overgrowth of potentially opportunistic or pathogenic species, including mold that can aggravate mold toxin sensitivities. And also, creating, as I said before, cholestasis through this dominance of certain pathogens and altering the inflammatory modulation that we need to keep in a balanced state.

The MOLD FOCUS plays a role on that part, but also with the antioxidant support, which I thought was critical when it comes to helping the body become more resilient to all these type of damage that we're getting from mold toxins that we spoke before. The combination of all these botanicals, including all these beautiful antioxidants, like rosemary and thiamine. And then we get these microbial-balancing botanicals, like Cistus incanus, which I know Dr. Klinghardt is a huge fan of. But also, we have Cordyceps there, neem, and oregano leaves. All these things combined will downregulate. We have clove there. We have even some mild antiparasitic effect because of those botanicals.

All these things combined will downregulate any, again, overgrowth of the microbes in the equation, including mold, plus this antioxidant effect. And I love that product. Actually, even thinking about SIBO or SIFO, it could be a great addition for those type of situations.

[1:44:43] SCOTT: Let's now talk about INDUSTRIAL FOCUS. This one confused me a little at the beginning. So, what do you consider industrial? Is this chemicals, pesticides, glyphosate, plastic, VOCs? What are you supporting with industrial focus? Walk us through kind of the key ingredients. Black kale extract was kind of a unique one to me. You've got some mast cell stabilizers in there as well. And since so many of the toxicants, like we talked about earlier, are coming in through inhalation, you also have added some lung and respiratory tonification support to this formula as well.

[1:45:22] DR. MAGARINOS: Yeah, we try to get creative with its name. And I don't know. Hopefully, it was a good option. INDUSTRIAL FOCUS is meant to be used for anyone that is getting exposed or was exposed to a big amount of environmental pollutants. Airborne particles, as we spoke earlier, and many others. Organophosphates has a very clear intentionality. The main reason I put together this protocol actually, this product was for glyphosate exposure.

But then I started getting a little bit more creative. I had a little bit of more room, and I thought, "Okay. What about VOC's and these airborne particles? Where are we taking care of the lungs?" Actually, I have not seen lung support for detoxification ever. And it's such a critical pathway. That's where we added Yerba santa as one of the ingredients.

But then I thought again, that we need to support the antioxidant properties for protecting tissues and lung tissues, but also other tissues. And that's why we added NAC for extra boost of glutathione as donating cysteine there. We added the glycine that we get the mimicry from glyphosate. And such an important element. Also, the black kale was intentionally added because it will give you the precursor for sulforaphane. And that is an NRF2. Huge NRF2 sulfur-related molecule. That was intentionally added there.

Then we have ginger, which is antioxidant on its own. But also, we are promoting better functionality at the drainage pathways that you were talking, the phase 2.5, with artichoke extract and ginger combined. We have a certain prokinetic activity there. All those things combined also will help with NF kappa beta downregulation. There's so many benefits in that product. It seems a little bit scattered all over the place. But if you start looking at the ingredients formulation, you will see the intentionality for the modern chemicals and the exposure to those.

[1:47:29] SCOTT: So you mentioned modern chemicals. We're hearing so much these days about microplastics and nanoplastics, where we don't really have a lot of solutions. Do any of these potentially help in that realm, or is it still too early to know?

[1:47:44] DR. MAGARINOS: It's too early to know to a certain extent. But we know that the common pathways that are used for excreting this molecules are supported by the remover first, and then additionally by the industrial focus. Definitely, the combination makes it very potent to cope with these type of challenges.

[1:48:01] SCOTT: HEAVY METALS FOCUS. That's one that I'm actually currently taking. And would love to hear a little bit about that formula. It seems like it's a combination of a more targeted binder with some additional drainage support as well. Love to hear your thoughts on cilantro. I've been hesitant over the years. I think cilantro can be a strong mobilizer. And maybe some people aren't ready for it. So, do we need to be concerned about that? And can we use this product, you being a dentist, if we still have amalgams or even people that maybe have orthopedic metal implants?

[1:48:36] DR. MAGARINOS: Yes. There's a little bit of, I believe, misunderstanding with these weak binders, so-called, with binders or mobilizers. What they are is like they work at the ECM level. They work in the extracellular matrix. They do create a little bit of a shake on that part of our structures. And they allow the release of these chemicals into the bloodstream.

Most of the times, heavy metals are challenging because they get trapped, and they don't really get released. They will be very stubborn and staying where they are, which is actually somehow intentional from the body's pathways to keep them contained. But also, from their affinity, they love fatty tissues. And they stay wherever they can find them. And then how we resolve that if we're not able to mobilize them properly?

HEAVY METALS FOCUS comes with a certain approach of solving that problem. We're using the actual botanical, so the potency is mild. I wouldn't be concerned about those situations. Because you're not really going to be chelating metals, or pulling metals strongly. But enough that you will get this ongoing flow of metals out of the ECM trapped. And then you have the chance of processing them accordingly.

And now, because you are using this in conjunction with the [inaudible 1:50:01] binder, now you have a plan. You have a safety net. And now you have a better chance of dealing with these heavy metals and actually getting rid of them. That's the whole rationale behind them. All the other things, like modified citrus pectin and sodium alginate, they have a lot of research behind that they can reduce lead and other heavy metals that are pretty nasty for our biology. And chlorella, another one. I love as part of these weak binders. But again, we're not using weak binders alone. We're using weak binders with a more comprehensive mesh, which comes with the actual binder product. It's safer.

[1:50:43] SCOTT: I like you also have the horsetail in there, which gives us the silica, which can help with aluminum, for example. Gadolinium Deposition Disease has become a significant topic over the years. So, do you know if anyone's used the heavy metal focus product and seen a reduction in gadolinium? Or any specific interventions you find helpful in that population? Any experience with things like Emeramide or HOPO? What are your thoughts on Gadolinium Deposition Disease?

[1:51:11] DR. MAGARINOS: The only thing I can say from an empirical standpoint at this point is that using ingredients before, not the actual heavy metal. I would love to say that I have tested my own heavy metal formula. But using the ingredients that are included in the heavy metal before I have been able to successfully reduce gadolinium to normal levels in people who were tested high initially. And it wasn't that a long process, such a long process as I would think. It took, I will say, 3 months in total to reduce those levels to normal amounts.

[1:51:47] SCOTT: We have just a couple questions here before we wrap up. So, let's talk about dosage. So my understanding is each of the products is intended to be taken at two capsules twice a day. So, you could be on four to six capsules twice a day if you're doing BINDER, REMOVE, and potentially a FOCUS product. Are people ever on more than one FOCUS product at a time? Are all the capsules always taken at the same time? With or without food, away from other supplements and medications? By how long, if necessary? And when people are on a big supplement protocol, how are we getting the best compliance with incorporating your products into a larger protocol?

[1:52:28] DR. MAGARINOS: Yes, the choreography for the dosing usually is two capsules of any of the products is the same amount of capsules for every product twice daily. It's going to be between four and six, depending if you're using a general bundle or a focus bundle. I don't like to use more than one focus at a time. Not because it's going to have some negative effects. It's just because I want to be, again, focused and simplistic in my approach.

Since the general detox bundle, the remover and binder are really taking care of the vast majority of the toxicological challenges. The focus is just an intentional support that can be added when you know already your toxicological burden. And it does help a lot. But if you use so many, it kind of defeats the purpose of that customization that we offer by using one of the focus bundle. Also, increases the price and other things, which might not be a concern for a lot of people. But I still believe that the focused approach is very important to keep things consistent and compliant over time.

My intention was always do the amount of capsules, the usage of these products as simple as possible. And I think we achieved that. Adding more products, I don't think it's going to bring you more benefits. Preferably, just one at a time.

[1:53:57] SCOTT: With or without food?

[1:53:59] DR. MAGARINOS: Usually, one hour away from foods at least. Yes.

[1:54:04] SCOTT: And should your products then be taken together away from all other supplements that someone might have in their protocol?

[1:54:11] DR. MAGARINOS: Depends mostly for all the nutritional supplements. And of course, medications. We combine them. You preferably take them away.

[1:54:22] SCOTT: And in this listener community, where there's a lot of sensitive people, are there some scenarios where someone may just do two capsules per product once a day, or one capsule twice a day, or maybe even scenarios where someone had to start with opening a capsule and using a portion of a capsule?

[1:54:39] DR. MAGARINOS: Absolutely. Yeah, that's the great part of this dosage, that it has a lot of flexibility. You can use the products once daily. You can use half of the dosage. You can use a quarter of the dosage. You can use it every other day. You can adjust the potency in terms of your needs and your tolerance. They're formulated to be used on a long-term basis. Ideally 6 months. It could be anything between three and six months. And the potency was adjusted so it doesn't create, again, a super big challenge for the cellular performance, the cellular activation, the receptor activation. We're very mindful about that. But still, some people can get sensitive. And if that's the case, you have all this flexibility in adjusting the formula. And you can't really go wrong. It's that simple.

[1:55:28] SCOTT: Better to do two capsules of each product once a day or one capsule of each product twice a day in more sensitive people?

[1:55:35] DR. MAGARINOS: You know, for sensitive, I will say one capsule of each twice daily rather than two capsules once daily at the beginning. Then things can change.

[1:55:46] SCOTT: Contraindications? Pregnancy, breastfeeding? Any others where we should not be using these products?

[1:55:52] DR. MAGARINOS: Severe organ damage. And in some people that has some resectomy, some surgical resection of certain parts of their intestines or digestive tract, they might be more sensitive. Because some of these ingredients, they do have some prokinetic activity. That might be a problem. But otherwise, it's pretty safe.

[1:56:14] SCOTT: So, what can we expect to see in the future from DetoxU? By the way, you generously have given us a 10% discount code for our community. I'll put that in the show notes. Are we going to see new products? Are we going to see new testing or lab options from you? Are we going to see more education? What's the future of DetoxU?

[1:56:35] DR. MAGARINOS: We are currently working in a test for toxicological analysis. And the lab is close to completion in terms of the project, this initial project. And we're very excited about it. And we're also working with other type of testings in certain type of toxins, specific toxins that we want to create more awareness.

We're toxic-driven and focused. And our panels, future products are going to just allow people to get even more support and more understanding of the overwhelming amounts of toxins that they're getting exposed to on a day-to-day basis.

You're going to see more products coming again with that simplistic mechanism in mind. But you're probably going to see more specific supports for very specific scenarios when people they need something extra to cope with these environmental challenges.

[1:57:32] SCOTT: I keep seeing SPIKE FOCUS, SPIKE FOCUS, SPIKE FOCUS.

Last question, and we can be brief on this one, but what are some of the key things that you do on a daily basis in support of your own health?

[1:57:44] DR. MAGARINOS: First and foremost, one of the things I love is taking my time to eat and enjoy my meals. I don't eat frequently. I don't eat many meals a day. Probably once to twice daily. That's it. I'm very simple. But I take the time to enjoy my foods. There's so many benefits in bringing those nutrients with that peace of mind, with that calm. And if you can socialize at the same time, even better. That's something I'm very mindful about. I prefer not to eat on the run. It's honestly like that. And that's non-negotiable for me.

Second, walking. Walking is something - again, if I'm not walking enough, I have a couple of people in my house that will push me out of the chair and allow me to start walking more and just -

[1:58:36] SCOTT: Plus, you get entertained by watching your wife doing her unique walking.

[1:58:39] DR. MAGARINOS: Exactly. Oh, I tease her all the time, and she doesn't care. But we laugh together. That's actually very fun. It's a fun routine we have. Actually, I've been embracing that a little bit myself in this funny walking way. The motion is very important. walking is critical.

And I will say the third part that is becoming sometimes - it is a little bit challenging. But for detoxification is critical. And we didn't mention that before. Sleep. Sleep, it's a key piece of detoxification. And if you miss one hour of sleep, you missed one hour of detoxification.

[1:59:18] SCOTT: Wow. Love that Dr. Haroldo, this was an amazing conversation. You were super generous with your time, and your knowledge, and your wisdom. I learned a lot from the conversation. I'm grateful that you're creating some new tools, new products that are going to help us further detoxify and better deal with the environment that we live in. So, thank you for detoxing you and for detoxing me.

[1:59:45] DR. MAGARINOS: Thank you so much for having me, Scott. I appreciate it.

[1:59:49] ANNOUNCER: Thank you for listening to today's episode of the BetterHealthGuy Podcast. You can learn more about today's guest, including relevant links and resources in the show notes. This podcast may provide community discounts, and occasionally share links from affiliate partners. You can find this and other episodes on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, iHeart, and more. To learn more about Scott's personal journey to better health, visit BetterHealthGuy.com. Join us next time on the BetterHealthGuy Podcast.

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